Support Forums: Message List - Ted Neward explains ORM as "The Viet Nam of Computer Science" http://www.theserverside.com Most recent forum messages en Jive Forums Silver 5.5.30 (www.jivesoftware.com) Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:31:37 -0400 Re: Ted Neward explains ORM as "The Viet Nam of Computer Science http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=41114
Well, that's the problem - transparent persistance works only for demo apps. You stumble upon roadblocks (which were described by Ted) very soon as you leave simple CRUD. [..]


Sorry, but this is...]]> Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:54:05 -0400 Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:54:05 -0400 Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:54:05 -0400 Jul 5, 2006 Steve Zara 0 Re: Ted Neward explains ORM as "The Viet Nam of Computer Science http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=41114
Well, that's the problem - transparent persistance works only for demo apps. You stumble upon roadblocks (which were described by Ted) very soon as you leave simple CRUD. [..]
...]]> Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:19:01 -0400 Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:19:01 -0400 Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:19:01 -0400 Jul 5, 2006 Cameron Purdy 1 Yeah, some symbol of freedom http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=41114 While I agree with you about the beauty and power of metaphors in general I'm not so sure this one is especially relevant.

Ted's hypothesis: "ORM is like Vietnam".

So from a US-centric point of view:
"Vietnam was a disaster"...]]> Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:42:44 -0400 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:42:44 -0400 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:42:44 -0400 Jul 4, 2006 Bruce Fancher 0 Re: Ted Neward explains ORM as "The Viet Nam of Computer Science http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=41114 I was comparing SQL-based approach (say with iBatis) and ORM based one.
...]]> Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:06:50 -0400 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:06:50 -0400 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:06:50 -0400 Jul 4, 2006 Mark N 0 Re: Missing the point http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=41114 Can Hibernate Tool do code completion (aka Ctrl+Space)? At least PLSQL Developer can for SQL....]]> Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:03:46 -0400 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:03:46 -0400 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:03:46 -0400 Jul 4, 2006 Mark N 0 Re: Ted Neward explains ORM as "The Viet Nam of Computer Science http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=41114 Well, that's the problem - transparent persistance works only for demo apps. You stumble upon roadblocks (which were described by Ted) very soon as you leave simple CRUD. Then you have to sacrifice either transparance (e.g. by choosing...]]> Tue, 04 Jul 2006 16:25:05 -0400 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 16:25:05 -0400 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 16:25:05 -0400 Jul 4, 2006 Steve Zara 2 Re: Ted Neward explains ORM as "The Viet Nam of Computer Science http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=41114
It's tedious only if you provide functionality that noone uses (like INSERT, SELECT/UPDATE/DELETE by PK for each and every table).
I am not sure I understand you here - you would surely be providing such functionality...]]> Tue, 04 Jul 2006 14:13:29 -0400 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 14:13:29 -0400 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 14:13:29 -0400 Jul 4, 2006 Bostjan Dolenc 4 Re: Missing the point http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=41114 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 14:03:29 -0400 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 14:03:29 -0400 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 14:03:29 -0400 Jul 4, 2006 Bostjan Dolenc 1 Re: Missing the point http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=41114 and that they are useless with SQL tools Actually, no they are not. Check out what can be done with Hibernate Tools and your fav SQL tool. I do it all the time.]]> Mon, 03 Jul 2006 11:09:52 -0400 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 11:09:52 -0400 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 11:09:52 -0400 Jul 3, 2006 Mark N 2 Re: Ted Neward explains ORM as "The Viet Nam of Computer Science http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=41114
I can't see how you can possibly claim this. ORM is used precisely because so many of us find it hugely simpler and easier than the tedious and verbose combination of SQL + JDBC.
...]]> Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:55:02 -0400 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:55:02 -0400 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:55:02 -0400 Jul 3, 2006 Steve Zara 5 Re: Missing the point http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=41114
This seems to me to be missing the point, which was whether or not ORM query languages can be reasonably easily understood and used by those used to SQL. It seems to me that those arguing that they aren't are the ones being...]]> Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:45:10 -0400 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:45:10 -0400 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:45:10 -0400 Jul 3, 2006 Steve Zara 0 Re: Ted Neward explains ORM as "The Viet Nam of Computer Science http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=41114 I can't see how you can possibly claim this. ORM is used precisely because so many of us find it hugely simpler and easier than the tedious and verbose combination of SQL + JDBC.
...]]> Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:41:23 -0400 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:41:23 -0400 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:41:23 -0400 Jul 3, 2006 Bostjan Dolenc 6 Re: Missing the point http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=41114 This seems to me to be missing the point, which was whether or not ORM query languages can be reasonably easily understood and used by those used to SQL. It seems to me that those arguing that they aren't are the ones being...]]> Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:27:32 -0400 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:27:32 -0400 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:27:32 -0400 Jul 3, 2006 Bostjan Dolenc 4 Re: Missing the point http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=41114
Yes, I understand "select from Person where id = 123" – Syntax Error! Someone has carelessly missed the selecting columns or "*".

Please note that Person is *not* a table and so...]]> Mon, 03 Jul 2006 06:14:08 -0400 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 06:14:08 -0400 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 06:14:08 -0400 Jul 3, 2006 Steve Zara 0 Re: Missing the point http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=41114
Yes, I understand "select from Person where id = 123" – Syntax Error! Someone has carelessly missed the selecting columns or "*".

Please note that Person is *not* a table and so has
*no*...]]> Mon, 03 Jul 2006 05:48:03 -0400 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 05:48:03 -0400 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 05:48:03 -0400 Jul 3, 2006 Guido Anzuoni 1