Well on the .NET platform, if you want a straight answer, you know EJB provides container managed persistence, provides a fairly nice model where I can go and I can load a bean and something the container will automatically persist that for me, which is interesting from a technical perspective but it's a very very hard problem. It's a very hard problem and if you look at the history of container manages persistence I think that the specification may finally have gotten it right in this version. It took a lot of iterations to get here and then we'll see I mean the market will have to make that decision. The .NET framework does not currently support that type of infrastructure. If you look at the types of support that we provide inside the .NET framework we do provide some things that enable rich data access but we don't provide that type of functionality.