BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1


News: BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1

  1. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1 (59 messages)

    At eWorld in March, BEA Systems plans to unwrap WebLogic 8.1 appserver and offer a preview of its upgraded portal, integration and WebLogic Workshop products, said solution providers familiar with the vendor's plans. The new Workshop should move from just a webservices-only tool to help manage J2EE development across the entire BEA stack.

    Read BEA Retools Lineup.

    Threaded Messages (59)

  2. WebLogic 8.0[ Go to top ]

    When did WebLogic 8.0 come out?
  3. or any more newer versions when the previous versions are just teething :).
    Every day there some new product, new frame work released. I agree its realy good for the community, but not so manyyyy are needed every day.
  4. How useful is Workshop ?[ Go to top ]

    Pace of change is increasing :-)

    I am woindering if there is anybody out there who has worked with WebLogic Workshop in production - what is your opinion of the tool at present ?
  5. How useful is Workshop ?[ Go to top ]

    We started out using Workshop to do our first
    tests with webservices.

    At is the same as with other integrated tools:
    It makes easy things easier and more complicated
    things more complicated.

    For us the key point was, that the mapping with
    XML map was not flexible enough, and going to
    use their Java script extension did not make sense
    for us, as you end up traversing the Dom in Java
    script (the I prefere JDom in Java)

    Now we switch to AXIS 1.0, and up to now we are really
    happy with it, as we have full control.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but Weblogic targets the
    the VisualBasic kind of developer to use Workshop.


    p.s. I have been using Weblogic since 2000 statring
  6. How useful is Workshop ?[ Go to top ]

    Workshop is a neat tool and provides for easy creation of components, including Web services. What's more, we were able to add higher-level functionality to this framework - composing async Web services into business flows through BPEL4WS.

  7. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1[ Go to top ]

    So BEA is going to release Weblogic 8.1 without stabilizing 7.0??? Why are they rushing to 8.1 so fast?
    I would like to know the names of the companies that are using Weblogic 7.0 in production currently and their experiences with 7.0
  8. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1[ Go to top ]

    We use weblogic 7.0. It's a fairly stable product. There are a couple of bugs that make you wonder how they got passed their QA dept. All in all, though, it's a product ready for prime-time.

    I think the article should read 7.1 (not 8.1). 7.0 was only released last summer and product lifecycles are usually about 18 months long. Plus, they're still only at service pack 1 of 7.0 so I don't know why they would jump to 8.1.
  9. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1[ Go to top ]

    You ask who is using WLS 7.0 in production. is using WLS 7.0.1. See &
  10. WebLogic 7.1 or 8.0[ Go to top ]

    I'm guessing that 8.1 is a typo and that the version of the next WebLogic release will be either 7.1 or 8.0. Anyone know which it will be?

    I would guess 8.0 since there is a JRocket 8.0 beta available and BEA seems to be attempting to keep the version numbers of these products in sync.
  11. WebLogic 7.1 or 8.0[ Go to top ]

    Although there may be valid reasons (enhancement,etc.) to change the base release to 8.0, the 8.1 is more of a marketing ploy. BEA, like many other software vendors, has a reputation of not getting it right until the .1 release.
  12. Who makes up version numbers?[ Go to top ]

    Marketing.... and who can divine why they do what they do.

    As for "us", we just call it the "Olympic release" and we feel its solid.

    Mark Grifith
    BEA WebLogic
  13. It's 8.1[ Go to top ]

    It's supposed to be focused on stability and quality issues. Call it 7.0.1 if you want, but BEA is going to call it 8.1. (It wouldn't be WebLogic if the version number made any sense.) It's already in use at select customers.


    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!
  14. It's 8.1[ Go to top ]


    "Call it 7.0.1 if you want, but BEA is going to call it 8.1."

    Actually, WLS 7.0.1 is the install name of WLS 7.0 service pack 1. As far as I know, 8.1 is definitely not a typo. Version 8.1 will have a sharp focus on WorkShop, which is to become the central tool to the whole WebLogic Platform functionality (notably integration, portal and obviously web services). This seems to be a trend initiated a year ago by SilverStream eXtend that allowed to create integration components with eXtend plug-ins (one per legacy system and protocol). But SilverStream had no steam and the tool has remained quite confidential despite its quality and despite the fact that it was also running on WebLogic and WebSphere. This should be IMO a big step forward for WLS as far as integration is concerned. The main reproach against WebLogic Platform was its disparity and lack of cohesiveness among platform components: I suppose and hope WLS 8.1 will effectively fix this. If the quality of the WorkShop tool remains the same, then I think BEA will take a serious competitive edge. Apart from that, I don't think there will be many new features. I also believe they plan to support J2EE 1.4 (at least the final candidate draft of the spec). If that turns out to be true, it's going to be early fun. :)

    And yes, WebLogic Server 7.0.1 is starting to be used in production or about to for new projects. It's quite a stable product despite a few limitations (some of which will be fixed in 8.1 by the way, such as the current unability to retrieve an underlying vendor connection instance from a pooled connection of a connection pool). Its JAAS-based security model is really nice and allows for an easy plugging of third-party security products. I genuinely believe it's a good product with lots of nice built-in functionalities.

  15. JBoss 4.0[ Go to top ]

    Does it really matter when JBoss 4.0 is coming by Java One? And it costs $0!
  16. RE: Jboss 4[ Go to top ]

    yea, but linux is free too, and it is still a big deal when a new Windows OS version comes out.....
  17. RE: Jboss 4[ Go to top ]

    Well actually we dont depend on broken windoze and you will find a lot of Weblogic users donot use broken windoze.

    Yes new Linux version is news to Java Developers.

    Java & Linux > .Not & Windoze
  18. jboss 4[ Go to top ]

    You may not care, but those of us doing professional development for money surely do. and if you think jboss is going to beat .NET, you're sadly mistaken. Without either BEA or IBM stepping up and taking over Java and putting a real effort behind it, Java will suffer the same fate that WordPerfect, DBase IV, Lotus 123, et al. did.
  19. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1[ Go to top ]

    I think BEA has learnt the version trick from the best if you can't fix the issue in weblogic 7.0 do a rewrite and call it 8.1 just like M$.

    This is tenedency for some vendors to jump from 7.0 to 8.1 so they can distance for all the buggs in 7.0 and say 8.1 is rewrite and it has no issues like 7.0.

    This is sad since I didnt expect BEA to pull a fast trick like
    Big Daddy M$.
  20. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1[ Go to top ]

    I think this is a sign of how bad they're doing. They need to increment the version number to justify charging customers for upgrades. They learned that from Borland who's been doing it for years.

    Plus BEA needs to increment the version to generate publicity in order to combat JBoss 4.0.
  21. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1[ Go to top ]

    Jamie, Schoaib, Michael,

    I think the version number is more a sign of a drammatic architectural change in the overall WebLogic platform than purely in WebLogic server. That makes sense in that respect.

  22. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1[ Go to top ]

    The article doesn't mention anything about this. It just comes across as a marketing ploy to draw attention to the BEA product line. Did they really make a drammatic change to the architecture or are they just repackaging their existing products under a new name? And why directly to 8.1 instead of 8.0?

    Furthermore the Gartner estimates on that page are way too optimistic in my opinion.
  23. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1[ Go to top ]


    I have no idea why they chose to directly go to 8.1 instead of 8.0. Maybe Tyler Jewell can answer that one...

    I have read similar things in other Gartner reports. These statements are generally associated with a 0.7 probability (for what it's worth).

    Now concerning the remainder of what I said, I simply heard that through the grapevine (I'm in regular contact with BEA support), I guess it should be pretty reliable though - let's say 0.7 probability :). The fundamental changes concern the gathering of all WebLogic tools into WorkShop and I think support for J2EE 1.4. Can't wait to get the beta version. :)

  24. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1[ Go to top ]

    ... and I forgot to say, support for Java 1.4 (which is mandatory for J2EE 1.4 anyway).

  25. Gartner Statements[ Go to top ]

    Taking Gartner at face value is pretty dangerous. They are paid big money by the big biys to print whatever the big boys tell them to. They are the least objective, if objective at all of the analysts firms. Listen to what people from some of the smaller firms have to say, they actually state facts to back up their predictions.
  26. WebLogic Versioning[ Go to top ]

    Yes, WebLogic Platform is a major architectural overhaul centered around WebLogic Workshop. I have to say that the Workshop technologies are quite impressive. Come to eWorld to see the earliest looks / positioning statements.

    The versioning is about keeping the products in sync together. Tuxedo was on 8.0 and is launching 8.1. This versioning is in line with keeping all the products together.

    As for WebLogic Server, this version is a hardening of the system: rapid start times, bleeding edge JVM, extreme debugging, stability. The rest of the platform has the major architectural advancements.

    Can't really say more until eWorld, but if everyone takes an honest look at platform when its released, it will impress you.

    Tyler Jewell
    Director, BEA
  27. WebLogic Versioning[ Go to top ]

    What is impressive in a product????

    Customers like to see a stable version of Weblogic not a new version with a new number or bundled with other BEA garbage products like Portal or a version with new features.

    WLS 6.1 with sp4 is still impressive, Avoid a lot of calls to BEA Support center and getting back the call with URL to Weblogic documentation in internet. Some time it is funny that even BEA customer support people don't even know what is wrong in their company's product :)).

    Anyway, in a market where some idiots give best product awards to BEA portal see the url in bracket below
    ( still believing in nice spoken marketing guys, it will be worth to play a game with versioning and version numbers.

    One more thing, hearing from BEA employees about the quality of their own products!!!!, is that worth enough????
    They are employed for talking all good about their market and products. It will be worth to hear from the real developers who using BEA products in their projects.
  28. WebLogic Versioning[ Go to top ]

    T Q, have you used WL Portal? Please don't begin a flame war here. Yes, its great to hear developers share their real experiences. That is what the reviews area is for.

    However, I also think it's a benefit to TSS members to have vendor guys here to answer questions and discuss their products within our threads. On what other public forums have we ever seen vendors actually interact with end users? My congragulations to vendors like BEA for having the courage to speak their minds on these public forums.

  29. WebLogic Versioning[ Go to top ]

    T Q, have you used WL Portal?
      Version 2.1 first time,then 3.1 & 3.5( Inside BEA)
      Finally 4.0 with NEW NAME !!!!
      Then "Good bye" to Commerce,Personalization and Portal Server. Now WLS 6.1 sp4 with WLS JAM and ES7000? is that
    good enough?.
    Am I gonna take new version into my project?
    Why? Cuz it is all buggy.
    Do I like any products from BEA?
    Yes(only the EJB container)
  30. WL Portal is crap[ Go to top ]

    BEA WL portal is vendor lock in at its pinnacle. To use BEA's portal all applications must be stripped of their framework and migrated into BEA's proprietary framework, which is extremely complex and lacks elegance.
  31. WL Portal is crap[ Go to top ]

    | BEA WL portal is vendor lock in at its pinnacle

    Isnt that true of any of the portal products?

    I am looking at portal products at the moment - I would be interested in what portal products you recommend.


  32. WL Portal is there[ Go to top ]

    It really depends on what you're looking for. has an open-source j2ee portal that seems nice. JetSpeed seemed pretty bloated, but it has a lot of stuff for wireless it seems.

    WL Portal is good if you have people that know it inside and out and you know what pieces you want and can use.

    The BEA WebLogic Platform now includes both Portal and Integration, as well as the Workshop. I don't know if it's there yet, but once things are pretty integrated in this suite it will be quite a package.

    Don't forget to look at content management products that might integrate with a portal solution. We have a custom solution that ties our stuff into the free open-source Zope CMF, but you can go with a big fat expensive solution to a more moderately-priced solution that can plug into WLP without any/with little customization.

  33. WL Portal is there[ Go to top ]

    Thanks for the info Steve,

    I wouldnt mind having a further chat with you about this (if you have the time).

    Do you have a blog?

  34. WL Portal is there[ Go to top ]

    I don't have a blog (should I get one? it might be fun.) But my email is spiritualmechanic at yahoo dot com. We've been using Portal for about a year and a half.

  35. Portal recommendation[ Go to top ]

    My point is: wait until the portlet specs(JSR 168) have been ironed out. Why dig a grave for yourself with those costs and this economy.

    If you absolutely must, invest in a package that is not costly for the time being:

    Especially in a company that eats its own dog food(i.e. portal). Jahia does, BEA doesn't.
  36. Portal recommendation[ Go to top ]

    | My point is: wait until the portlet specs(JSR 168) have
    | been ironed out. Why dig a grave for yourself with those
    | costs and this economy

    The problem is I am not sure we can wait that long...
    I dont know when 168 is going to be released - and then there is the issue that you have to wait some time after that before you get any implementations. I'd put money on that being a year away before we see some implementations to choose between.

    I'll look at jahia - thanks.

  37. Portal recommendation[ Go to top ]

    I agree. Everyone needs portals now, so it's not really feasible if someone's paying you to write a portal to wait until JSR168 comes out. :)

    I'm really not sure what the spec will really iron out. The basic events (minimize/maximize) probably, but what else? Even with a portlet spec, there still will be a lot of integration between your portlets if you want any sort of flow of data. That's what we've found anyways.

  38. Pluto[ Go to top ]

    The problem is I am not sure we can wait that long...
    I dont know when 168 is going to be released - and then there is the issue that you have to wait some time after that before you get any implementations. I'd put money on that being a year away before we see some implementations to choose between.

    Seems like JSR 168 will be available very soon. Currently there are talks about accepting a new project to Jakarta called Pluto which is an implementation of JSR 168 (see the proposal here:

  39. WL Portal is crap[ Go to top ]

    A good portal is open source,based on Struts, JSTL, XML , and SQL.
  40. Enterprise Portals[ Go to top ]


    The enterprise portal is a complicated beast. Some think a portal is a content aggregation mechanism. Others view it as a way of integrating applications and processes. Yet another set of people look at it as a way of getting at items locked up in the underworld of some ERP package. Few enlightened individuals understand that all of these niche problems amount to a larger architectural solution where a portal acts as a service platform for delivery of Web applications. The platform will provide you with the infrastructure that lets you do all of the above as opposed to lock you into One True Way (tm) of doing things.

    Seen from the platform perspective the question "what portals are good?" will give you a very short list of candidates. In the J2EE world that'll be Epicentric (now Vignette), BEA (WLP) and IBM. Noone has ever been fired for buying IBM and their portal product is good but not great. WLP is an excellent product. One of WLP's strengths is an embedded rules engine that can be used to dynamically create user segments for targeted personalization but there are quite a few weaknesses with top 3 being usability (hope 8.x is much better), heavyweight GUI-driven development and deployment process and a very cumbersome method of getting at existing user and group data. BEA also rolled their own rules engine for some reason.

    I'd like to understand what you're looking for in the portal -- send me email, let's chat.


    Architect, Epicentric (now Vignette)
  41. WebLogic Versioning[ Go to top ]


    You will find that Shaji (TQ) is actually a disgruntled ex-employee of BEA...

  42. WebLogic Versioning[ Go to top ]

    Hello Enterprise world,
          Look into the way BEA guys behave!!!!. They are like a frog in pond, who always think, there is not even a single ocean outside with a lot of water and damn big animals. Frog in pond believe that, their pond is the biggest water resource in world and they are the leaders in their domain!!!. Unfortunatly it is pathetic that people go around monster,dice,etc and look for my resume and name, sending private emails to my hotmail, on my comments about something I worked or working in last 6 years.
          I am telling it again, BEA portal is nothin but a collection of garbage, other than changing its name and screen colors, it is still a collection of java code written by a group of developers before labeling with BEA name. Wanna pay 100,000s?? go for it.
  43. WebLogic Versioning[ Go to top ]

    | Unfortunatly it is pathetic that people go around
    | monster,dice,etc and look for my resume and name, sending
    | private emails to my hotmail, on my comments about
    | something I worked or working in last 6 years.

    Nothing of the sort. (I have better things to do with my time) .... I just read this info in this review thread on this site....

    And FWIW, I dont have an opinion on WLP.

  44. WebLogic Versioning[ Go to top ]


    I know that vendors are constantly trying to gain an edge with new releases but the shear pace of them is getting annoying.

    We released our service which runs on top of Weblogic 6.1 and use Portal and WLI in August (we considered Platform 7.0 to be unstable at that point). I have since started to work through what will be the issues migrating to 7.0 and we should be good to go by Q2. By the time we release 7.0 we will have to start looking at migrating to 8.1.

    I personaly wish BEA would slow its release cycles down and concentrate on building a more stable release. Surely in the end they are hurting their own support staff with producing so many versions to support.


    PS. Of course their support often just use the classic response when you have an issue "You have to upgrade to fix that bug". ;-).
  45. You couldn't be more right[ Go to top ]

    I was in a meeting discussing upgrading for the next phase. This was phase 3. Phase 2 ran on one version, part of Phase 2 was upgrading phase 1. Part of phase 3 is upgrading phase 1 and 2. Mean while, the business guy is saying we didn't need to upgrade our COBOL compiler on the Mainframe with each phase of a project.

    Even Microsoft never released Visual Studio Releases so quick. J2EE App server life spans are getting shoter and shorter. I am a J2EE guy, but in the scheme of life shorting life spans usually mean one thing. I think they should purposely delay J2EE 1.5, let people use J2EE 1.4 for a while. I mean my current project just adopted Struts 1.1 (which is on Beta 3), and there worried about Java Server Faces (It's not even here yet). This is too unhealthy.
  46. David and Roland,

    I can understand that for an individual on a project, the rapid pace of upgrade can be daunting. However, no-one should be forcing you to upgrade!

    I am not suggesting it is the case with you - but some just get miffed because they are no longer "working on the latest stuff".

    If the existing version of the Appserver does it for you, then why upgrade at all?

    David, if in your case BEA are suggesting that a bug on 6.1 isnt going to be fixed - and that you should upgrade to 7.0 - that is very bad (even though there are no license costs involved in the upgrade). However, I would be surprised that this is the case. I think they are up to SP4 now on 6.1 ... I think that 4 sevice packs in 18 months is showing reasonably good attention to maintenance of any product, let alone a superseded version.

    However, for a large corporation, incremental change is a good thing. You never want to get into a situation where you have to be budgeting serious money in order to big-bang migrate some 50% of your IT applications off a legacy platform (by which time, things have moved on so much that a) no-one remembers how it works, and b) your big-bang upgrade is usually a re-write).

    Having said that, you obviously have to be sensible about it. For example you wouldnt upgrade EVERY time Tomcat did a minor point release. Production support have to be happy that they can handle the different versions.

    In a larger organisation, there are new projects starting all the time. You want each project to deliver the best that they can in terms of value for money (something of good quality, developed quickly).
    If leveraging open-source and commercial software will help that, then thats what they should do.
    In many cases, it doesnt make sense for a project to work with an older version of a product if it is known that there are significant new features in the new version that will help them.
    You just have to be satisfied that the cost of upgrading is acceptable (which usually depends on the size and the impact of the changes) for the benefit gained.

  47. In theory, this is where XP and continuous integration comes in.

    IF you are able to generate a complete suite of tests for your app, then switching/upgrading app servers wouldn't be a big deal. :)

    I think that's where we will have to get to eventually to keep up with things.

  48. Hi,

    In my original post I did not go into any of our reasons for doing the upgrade from 6.1 to 7. We have had several issues getting WLI, Portal and WLS to work together, especially with each product having different service pack levels and service pack requirements for the application server. Currently we are stuck on WLS 6.1 application server sp2 working on 1.3.1_03. We are hoping that moving to Platform will help with this headache.

    Visibroker is also pushing us to upgrade the JVM to 1.3.1_06 to help with some duplicate CORBA message issues we are having that Visibroker blames on some IO issues the Sun's JVM.

    I do agree with you that incremental change is good. For that reason upgrading should happen. If you start to slip to far behind the curve you will eventually start to run into support/integration issues. By this time the effort to upgrade to a new version may be so great you will need a complete re-write and those projects in my opinion are some of the most difficult to get right.

    Finally on a personal note, as an engineer I do have a natural instinct to want to work with the latest stuff and use the latest ideas. If I thought my company was not interested in helping me to keep my skills relatively up to date and investing in new technology I would move on.

  49. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1[ Go to top ]

    Are you speaking from experience or just mouthing? *No one* said the next release is a rewrite, did they?

    Are there specific issues you are experiencing with version 7 that you believe are not being addressed?

    If BEA called the next release 7.0.1 someone would complain. If it was 7.1 someone would complain. If it was 7.0001,, 8.1, 8.0, etc., someone on this thread would suggest that's bad.
    It is a release beyond v7.0. It will probably have new features, enhancements, and fixes. That's what we all do in software development. I imagine that's the same thing you do in your development and you give your releases a number.

  50. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1[ Go to top ]

    Did you see the service pack for 7.0. It seems like there were bugs in every aspect of the app server.

    I think a little QA on BEA's part would have resolved the issues when you are paying for something....even Tomcat release doesnt have this many issue as Weblogic 7.0. and it is free and open source.

    There are still a lot of issues with 7.1 my question is BEA fixing this or just jumping the ship for next version.
  51. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1[ Go to top ]

    It seems that Bea is trying to copy microsoft i.e you cannot fixs the bugs just ship a new version. Sad!!!
  52. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1[ Go to top ]

    Why not call it Weblogic XP?
  53. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1[ Go to top ]

    Come on, you can do better: WebLogic Longhorn
  54. Longhorn?[ Go to top ]

    "WebLogic Longhorn"

    I don't get it.
  55. Longhorn?[ Go to top ]
  56. what about JDK1.4[ Go to top ]

    What I want to know is when WLS is going to support JDK1.4?

    Will this be available in 7.1 or do we have to wait until 8.1 is stable, hence 8.2!!!!
  57. JDK 1.4[ Go to top ]

    WebLogic 8.1 runs on JDK 1.4 and includes the 1.4 version of jRockit which is really starting to look like a nice product (with its JVM monitoring console, alerts/events, etc.) The product (both WL and jR) appears to be stable.

    I don't see this either as a "great leap forward" or "BEA is in trouble". It's an incremental release, and it looks to be an improvement. That's what most customers are looking for these days from their app server vendors.

    As far as the numbering, it's not decided by the WL group. It has something to do with keeping all the version numbers in the platform in sync.


    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!
  58. JDK 1.4[ Go to top ]

    Hi Cameron!

    We met at FreddieMac when you stopped in for a couple of days of performance analysis. I'm very relieved to see support for JDK 1.4 from WL8.1. The benchmarked performance difference between JDK 1.3.1 and JDK 1.4 on Solaris is pretty substantial. This might make a bigger difference to some customers than any WebLogic features added between 7.0 and 8.1!

    Though benchmarks aren't perfect, see these two as a comparison of Solaris with JVM 1.3 vs. 1.4:

    Vick Fisher
  59. 1.4 vs 1.3[ Go to top ]

    Hi Vick,

    We've been very pleased with 1.4 performance (JDK 1.4.1_01 for example) vis-a-vis 1.3. It's not across the board, but we think that serialization performance is much better, GC seems improved, etc. In some benchmarks, it's only a couple percent either way, and in some it is 50% faster!

    Also, have you seen Osvaldo's papers?


    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!
  60. BEA Readies Weblogic 8.1[ Go to top ]

    I Think BEA guys have to read the article

    before releasing a new version.