JBuilder - why a special version for WebLogic?

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General J2EE: JBuilder - why a special version for WebLogic?

  1. JBuilder - why a special version for WebLogic? (7 messages)

    Can anyone shed any light as to why Borland have a separate version of JBuilder for WebLogic. I thought Borland was supposed to be vendor neutral and open standards. Why should we have to buy separate versions of our beloved JBuilder when one version could easily support all App Servers via vendor specific plug-ins. For me, this is a step in the wrong direction for Borland and JBuilder.

    Neale Napier

    Threaded Messages (7)

  2. Just learn ant, vim/emacs and the command line and then you don't have to pay for anything, and you will be much more effective.
  3. Hi,

    Since BEAs own Visual Cafe bit the dust it has been looking for more of a partner to provide an IDE. JBuilder is probably the natural choice.

    Personally I think the day of the vendor supplied IDE has gone. I used to use JBuilder but switched recently to Eclipse. Lets face it the price tag is a lot easier to swallow.

    David
  4. Do we need all they offer??[ Go to top ]

    Just a general question. To warrant to price tag for the likes of JBuilder you would think that you would need all the extras and features to be productive.

    Would it not just be easier to get used to the command line and some simple editors and not have to worry.

    Does anyone use these built-in features, for deployment and configuration par se or is it just me.

    Remember an IDE worth a couple of grand does not make you a better developer!!
  5. Finally![ Go to top ]

    A man after my own heart.

    In my experience, developers that use IDEs tend to use them as a crutch, and senior-level developers who can really crank out code use emacs or vi[m] and the command line. It gives you a better understanding of how everything works, and when you need to debug, you need to know that. What you don't need is a debugger or hot class redeploy or any other fancy tools. By understanding the system, and understanding the code, you can debug much more effectively. By being able to develop with command line tools and so-called text editors (many of which are far more advanced code editors than any IDE), you will have the same level of effectiveness and productivity in ANY environment.
  6. Crutches are bad mkayy[ Go to top ]

    I agree with you about the people who use ides to hide the fact that they are sub par in the development area.

    Many people cling to IDEs under the false impression that it will somehow take them from medeocre to expert programmers/developers. NOT THE CASE. If you don't know beans (no pun intended) about programming and can barely get by... Those IDEs will beat you to a pulp. From what I have seen they are only truely useful if you have gone through the command line, emacs, vi, experience for several years. Its once you've reached that level that sitting in front a an ide after a while makes you start thinking "Man!!!!! You mean if I had this a year ago! I could have..."

    If the person is a knowledgable developer they will be proficient either way after the learning curve levels off...

    if they are medeocre... sorry buddy... an IDE is not a magic bullet.
  7. Crutches are bad mkayy[ Go to top ]

    If you are not a very good developer I don't think any tools will help. Even heavy weight developement tools like WLI, Portal EBCC and now Workshop with their nice graphical interfaces can hide bad code and bad development practices.

    On a personal side I have recently been working more and more with projects that have a large code base already in place. Often this code has no unit tests and some interesting designs (or lack of). I have therefore become a big component of Refactoring (Martin Fowlers book on this subject is great). Eclipse has started to provide some nice refactoring tools and with the help of JUnit, Cactus, JMeter, CVS, Cruise Control and Ant I have started to feel that no project is a lost cause.

    David
  8. I work at a Research and Dev Facility and we use JBuilder for everything java.

    For the first few months it was nothing more to most of us than a text editor with syntax highlighing and code autocomplete features...

    Now (about 9 months after initial purchase) it is an absolute time and money saver. The refactoring, method/class renaming features alone are awesome. I know how to refactor classes... but if there are 100 classes or better... I don't want to be doing that in vi, xemacs... take your pick. That can take minutes, hours, days, weeks. (As refactoring can be alot more than just doing a search/replace on a package name) With JBuilder it takes literally Seconds. And all the code impacts are laid out for you. The Autodocing feature is also pretty cool. being able to start a javadoc comment with /** and having the tags for the return and params is nice. It even has reminders at the left to tell you wich items in the javadoc you have neglected to fill out. Click the UML tag and you get a nifty class diagram (albiet a static diagram). I know how to do uml... (we use together control center and ration rose) But if I am called into a spur of the moment design meeting its nice to be able to click a tab and print. Viola! a class diagram of the api changes I have made lets talk!

    My one complaint with jbuilder is its support for ant... it's good. But for large projects it takes exponentially longer than doing an ant compilation at the command line. Usually I just use ant at the command line. All in all though I find it much easier than the days when I used to use vi or xemacs using regular expressions to do search and replaces. Rifling through javadocs to see when and why a particular method was depricated and what its new cousin is. Etc. There are many more things I could say about how useful different features are but I'd be rambling for quite a while.

    As a side note Eclipse is not a bad ide either. It does most of the things jbuilder can do. Has most of the same plugins available and if you haven't already bought jbuilder... I'd say its the way to go.

    I think it really comes down to what is more productive for the end user. It