J2ME + J2EE bodes doom for handhelds?


News: J2ME + J2EE bodes doom for handhelds?

  1. J2ME + J2EE bodes doom for handhelds? (13 messages)

    General Motors announced that it will use Nextel’s J2ME equipped Motorola cell phones to market a field-force management app to its truck fleet customers. The news casts a shadow over the future of handheld devices in the business marketplace. In many respects, leveraging Java on the client with J2EE app servers on the back end makes handsets equal in capability to handhelds.

    Read Farewell to handhelds.

    Threaded Messages (13)

  2. Isn't a cellphone a handheld?
  3. I think there is potential for this, but not just yet:
    the MID Profile which I believe most people think of when speaking of J2ME has a few drawbacks when developing for todays devices:
    * sandbox development: you basically have no access to any kind of native resources, such as SMS etc, and as soon as you close the Midlet, its gone.
    * Java doesnt really help when working with extremely resources: the overhead with the virtual machine pretty much forces you to give up on a lot of object-orientation and program more in a procedural manner, if you create a few objects: voila! all out of memory..
    * XML-parsing takes a bit to much resources.

    I do hope that in time that we can move in two directions: more resource efficient J2ME JVM:s with more access to the device (a lot has been done for MIDP 2.0, but Iḿ not to familiar with it considering there are no devices yet). And of course: more powerful devices.
    At the moment, you are quite often "forced" to develop directly to the device, for example Symbian, which does work, but the Symbian development tools are quite awful..

    And as for the chosen devices: I would prefer input on a palm over my cell any day.. So I think different flavors of J2ME are the way to go depending on the device.

    But we are probably getting there before long..
  4. Some apps require larger screen, some require simplicity.
    There is room for everybody.

    Actually the handsets are just entering the business apps sector and they will take away the share that belongs to them.
  5. The limits of the cellular phones, mostly the screen size, forces the developers to break the UI into simple screens/steps. This is a natural proponent of the wizard type development. For many non-technical users this is a big benefit.
    The price of the handsets is smaller.
    This makes the handset a better platform for simple applications that are more data input oriented.

    If the application is more for reference (data viewing) I think the handhelds are better suited. IMHO working with a map on a cell phone will be a torture.
  6. J2ME is much more than MIDP[ Go to top ]

    It is nice to see MIDP finally takes up the enterprise market. However, J2ME is much more than MIDP. There are PersonalJava and Personal Profile that runs perfectly well on my PocketPC or Zaurus devices. Enterprise mobile applications require a wide variety devices from pervasive handsets to TabletPCs. Java provides a unique oppurtunity to mix those devices and backend services altogether.

    Anyway, if you are interested in more enterprise applications of J2ME, stop by my JavaOne BoF session and we can discuss more ... The session targets experienced Java developers who wants to add mobility to their applications.

    Design Patterns and Best Practices for JavaTM Technology-Based Mobile Applications

    Author of Enterprise J2ME coming soon from Prentice Hall
    J2ME versus .NET Compact Framework: Original, Reloaded
  7. J2ME is much more than MIDP[ Go to top ]

    Hello Michael

    I have been investigating the OSGi framework for higher end modules with more compute power. I am attending the JavaOne Conference this year, definitely would be interested to talk to you about Java in mobile applications.

  8. Hi all,
    Once upon a time there was roumoring about PDAP which is samo where between J2ME and Personal Profile. I am strongly in need of such a spesification since J2ME is so limited and Personal Profile is bigger than most handheld device can handle. I don't believe that handsets are a solution for most mobile enterprise applications becouse of their tiny screens and memory. Our sales department would never agree for selling things through their handsets but try to cope up with a handheld which has greater flexibility for both developer and user.
  9. The PDAP is dead[ Go to top ]

    The PDAP is now PDA OP (an optional package over the MIDP to provide file I/O and PIM access for low end PDA devices). The PDAP made sense a few years ago for PalmOS PDAs. But now, Palm PDAs are more and more powerful and I think the Personal Profile will be more suitable for them.

    I think many people might be surprised how powerful the MIDP plus optional packages could become. In fact, the next generation Symbian will be completely based on MIDP and advanced OPs.


    Author of Enterprise J2ME coming soon from Prentice Hall
    J2ME versus .NET Compact Framework: Original, Reloaded
  10. Forget about .NOT. If current trends continue (growth rates, market share), Microsoft is destined to lose the embedded market entirely within the next two years. You may want to pay a little more attention to reality, the new reality, that is unfolding. As soon as it becomes clear that Microsoft cannot control embedded, the game will be over. And I rather suspect, that the SCO vs Linux fud is but a pre-ample of what is coming from Microsoft. Microsoft alreay knows what is in store. Steve Ballmer unloading Microsoft stock by the truckload? Say it isn't so, Joe. For a company that has a $50 billion war chest, it will be exciting to watch it evaporate, as Linux mows 'em down. I look forward to this scenario with great optimism for the future. It will move mankind forward a great degree once the world is rid of this most vile and repugnant pariah.

    - Microsoft has created far too many enemies along the way to be able to marshall a comeback in embedded. The Linux monopoly simply provides vastly superior technology, at vastly lower prices, with vastly superior quality.

    - Last but not least, Linux places the interest of the end user (read customer) first. Most important. Microsoft has always placed its own selfish corporate objectives ahead of everything else. As we all know so well, with all of the various failures of Microsoft Technology (that Slammer virus thing was an AMAZING revelation of what Microsoft really stands for), it shows a corporation that seems to be very good at screwing anyone, and everyone - some of the time, most of the time (care to relearn VB??), and we can only hope, in the end, itself.

    Or might I remind of the old sage - What goes around, comes around. ... they shall not go peacefully in the night...
  11. I've been using a Nokia 9110 Communicator for over two years now. Java or not, it has replaced my PalmPC ever since.

    I mainly use the PalmPC to play Doom when the bites are few on a day on water.

    I think a Java enabled mobile phone will enable more mobile applications to surface. The only thing missing is an integrated GPS, and it would be a killer gadget.
  12. If iDEN phones could be GSM[ Go to top ]

    Motorola i88s and i58s have GPS module accessible to MIDP applications.

    I would say if Motorola iDEN phones could be GSM or dual band...
  13. Yuri more info please[ Go to top ]


    Could you give me more info on the MIDP and motorola phones.
    jim tyrrell at yahoo dot com just take out the spaces and convert at and dot to @ and .

    Thank You
    Jim Tyrrell
  14. A long way to go....[ Go to top ]

    ...until this might happen. To just mention a couple of "characteristics" of MIDP:

    - Buggy implementations by the vendors (for example it is almost impossible to use Input and Output Streams without numerous tweaks for the different vendors)
    - No platform independent access to telephony
    - No direct graphics
    - No floating points (argh, the SINCLAIR ZX81 had floating point!!!!)
    - UI with out of the box components is a mess, for example with a NOKIA 7210, the forms are just unusable
    - No https
    - Applications (Midlet Suites) limited to ridiculous sizes, especially if you try to do some cool integration work using XML and Web Services
    - Broken support for platform independent property files due to encoding mismatches
    - Text entry with numeric keypad?

    Of course MIDP 2.0 is destined to ease the pain, but if adoption is similar to MIDP 1.0 this will hit the market roughly the same time 4G phones will arrive. That said, I believe a good PDA/Phone morph, like the Nokia Communicator or the Sony P800 is actually as much of a handheld anyone needs....