because I'm working on a dynamic language of my own I'm no longer allowed to criticize.
What language? MetroJ? Where is this mysterious language that makes you so qualified to comment on language design? I haven't seen it.
The truth is, your criticisms are just silly. Here is one example, of many very strange comments you’ve repeatedly made: "They broke backward compatibility!"
Dude. It's a beta. There is no "backward compatibility" with pre-release or beta software. That's why its NOT called "final". Gosh. I thought that was something a software engineer would understand.
Repeat after me: "beta doesn't not mean final".
“Beta software can, and probably will change, before it’s final”
As someone who has been screwed by the Groovy project I have no right to attempt to warn off other people?
How did you get screwed over? This is another weird thing you’ve said a hundred times.
Let's see, you bet your reputation at work on a language that was still in development. It changed and now your old stuff, those scripts based on old "beta" versions of a language, don't work. Gosh. It's no wonder your friends laughed at you when you spoke about using Groovy in production. I got news for you Mike: They weren't laughing at Groovy.
As for my qualifications - let's just say that I'm not quite as unqualified as you believe. You might want to consult my online resume for specifics.
Uh .. Ok. Just a sec. Nope. Not impressed, but thanks for providing hard evidence that you are not qualified to criticize language design or the process,
I don't see anything about inventing a successful programming language. I don't see anything about leading a successful open source project. Hmm. Nothing about running a JSR. No mention of using a dynamic programming language in production other than Perl. Perl is cool, but having used it doesn't make you a language expert. Sorry.
Richard, let me tell you something: by now I've read every line of code in Groovy. Every damn one. I participated for some time on the 3 Groovy lists. I wrote the documentation for Groovy closures which was acknowledged as far better than existed before (and it's still there on the web site). I'm a guy who ate, drank, and bathed in Groovy for several months. I gave the project up after having not just sampled it, but after fully experiencing it to the hilt.
And you still don't get it? Wow. That's pretty sad.
But what’s worse is that you never contributed a patch. Never helped develop a piece of functionality needed by the project. The only thing you ever did was write an overview of closures. For someone who is intimately familiar with the inner workings of Groovy, I think that’s dreadful. You could have done some good. What a waste.
Which is more than I can say for you, Richard. How much Groovy code have you written? Where are your Groovy scripts? How involved have you been with the JSR since it was launched? Where are your JSR proposals?
Dude. JSR-241 The Groovy Language specification was written, in large part by me. Where are your JSR proposals? They must have been really good because there are so many active JSR's with your name on them. Let's count ... hmm. I'm sure they are here somewhere. Nope. Not a one.
I'll show you mine if you show me yours.
Uhh ... No thanks.
How much of the implementation code have you looked at? Have you ever looked at it? Let me paraphrase your closing bit here: Don't believe what Richard is telling you. I worked with you Richard on the closure docs - he did the fun-to-read intro, I did the more technical specification stuff. And he told me point blank he didn't really know the deep parts of the closure spec.
You have an interesting approach to debates, Mike. When you can't come up with a good argument, you start making things up. Please show me where I said that I "really [don't] know the deep parts" or "I don't get Groovy". It's going to be hard, since I never said that, but hey, you made it up so ...
I am loud and obnoxious. This is true. But you seem to automatically assume that because someone is loud that they're incorrect. This is not the case. Rather than judge me based on my tone, maybe you should read the content of my writings.
I have read your blog. For a while there you made some good points about progress. Things had slowed down for a while. Even I said so, but other points you have made are just weird. There are a lot of people who read your ravings and just shake their heads. It's pretty obvious that you don't understand the difference between dynamic programming languages and general programming languages like Java. You just don't get it.
because I'm working on a dynamic language of my own I'm no longer allowed to criticize.
This really cracks me up, because you’ve said a dozen times that MetroJ is a “scripting language”. Nothing more and nothing less. Now you call it a dynamic language. Sorry, Mike but they are not the same thing. A dynamic language can be used for scripting, but a scripting language is not automatically a dynamic language. If you really knew what you were talking about, which you obviously do not, you would know this.
Instead of being [mad] at me, maybe you should check just how much JSR-1 broke in the language.
Sigh. It's not a final release so you can't break anything.
You claimed many times that you are simply criticizing Groovy and that you have every right to do that. Well this is the Internet so of course you can say anything you like, but the fact is what you have been pontificating is not criticism. It’s a FUD campaign.
If you’re language is so great and superior to Groovy, than put it out there. Let’s see this magical language you’ve developed. It must manifest your best ideas. You’re implementing it right? So, if MetroJ can stand up to the test of the open community it will speak for its self. If, however, the only way you can get any attention is to make unsubstantiated claims about the Groovy language and the open source community that support it, then I guess we know the truth.
I wish I had not told you to “shut the hell up”. That was rude and I apologize. You have every right to speak your mind, but please be honest about it. The truth is, you want to convince people that Groovy sucks so that you can promote your self and your own scripting language. All this “I loved Groovy and it betrayed me” crap, is just that. Crap.
I mean really. How seriously can you take a guy who says in one breath, “Language A sucks!" and in another says, “I’m developing Language B!”