Recently I heard from Oracle developers, that Oracle considering to start implementation of a.k.a. Oracle# - Oracle Application Server for MS Windows .NET platform.

They are trying to redevelop it from scratch in C# language combination of best from J2EE (Orion source will be starting point for translation to C#) and best of Microsoft (exact same list of enterprise services as Hailstorm, Passport and etc.). Underneath it will be based on asynchronized messaging engine. Sounds like Oracle is deciding to fight all J2EE vendors together with Microsoft, at least for awhile.

If this is true then it sounds like they are fighting .NET as well, for this new platform competes with Microsoft on all fronts.

Sure it uses C#, but this doesn't mean that Oracle and MS are in bed. For a while Oracle had a Java based enterprise framework (components for java I believe) for some time, that competed with EJB. To have a competitor to .NET built with C# would be a similar venture.

Floyd

It must be Larry's dream again. The bc4j framework, based on Java and XML, is very easy to use for simple purpose but almost impossible to extend. What can you do if the component is a stateful session bean which has methods on the remote interface taking byte[] as parameters? Good luck, Oracle.

I wish people would post the names of Oracle employees that they've heard stories like this from. Or URL's to the credible sources that have reported stories like this. I'm sure the reason is because, they don't exist :-)

If you have a BC4J question, it's best to post it in the Oracle Technet discussion forum for JDeveloper on http://otn.oracle.com

BC4J implements all of the J2EE EJB "Blueprints" Design Patterns automatically, and adds features that Sun hasn't even yet realized *need* a design pattern. Using BC4J you can easily develop and deploy stateful EJB session beans that manage efficient remote collections of views of business data, which in the EJB application tier are coordinated with lightweight (a.k.a. "local") entities that encapsulate the shared business logic. The byte[] parameter on our session beans is part of an our mechanism that allows your remoteable rowsets to always be refreshed with any side-effects that occur as a result of processing middle-tier business logic.

As a developer, when you use our client-side remote data access interfaces you are shielded from having to know any of the EJB-isms that occur under the covers. The framework coordinates all the client and server side EJB details for you, all on top of a J2EE-compliant EJB infrastructure, but with an ease of use that is unheard of with "straight" EJB development.
_____________________________________________________________________
Steve Muench - Developer, Product Manager, XML Evangelist, Author
"Building Oracle XML Applications" - www.oreilly.com/catalog/orxmlapp

Remember Oracle Power Object which they tried to imitate Visual Basic ? I think Oracle# will have the same end. (If they do it) Oracle cannot make better web-server than apache. They have to buy Orion server and JBuider from other vendors. I don't think they can make Oracle# happen.

Oracle = Database

Wow!

And I also heard from Oracle developers that if you bend over and touch your ankles, you can see your bum ...

Oracle has just licensed Orion to get into the big boys Java game. They are not going to dick with it like that. They they know they need to get it right this time or else they wouldn't have bothered licensing the source for Orion. That was a very ballsy move considering how much effort they must have put into their database VM.

onya boonie.

There's no way on earth that Oracle would drop support for non-MS platforms with 9ias, so that means they'd have to maintain two source trees for essentially the same product. Doesn't sound like a great deal to me... Besides, surely there will be a third-party Java.NET at some point in the near future (if it can run C#, Haskell, and Python, then Java should be damn easy). Wouldn't it be smarter for Oracle to use Java.NET and maintain a compatibility with their existing product?
Now, maybe they have an engineer or two playing around with C# for the app server, testing how fast it would be, and so on. But I would be seriously shocked if they released a product like the one described in this post any time in the next 2 years.

What else can we expect from Oracle.

If the news is true i am not surprised. It shows Oracle's lack of commitment to standards, all that they have been trying to offer in the J2EE world is just superficial.

In the ending all tht they want to do is lock in more customers and cut down innovation .

It's not a matter of whether they implement C# or any other language. If Oracle are indeed planning to do this, then they will just need to implement the CLI (as submitted to the ECMA and as being attempted by a few open-source teams), using the Oracle container instead of COM+ as the container. Then language XYZ compiles to IL, which in turn is compiled to native code for the particular platform at run time by the particular implementation of the CLI.

Lee.

Sometime back I read an article saying that Orcale and Sun are releasing some tool for converting .Net appliactions to J2EE. Then why would Oracle support .Net in the first palace, let alone the fact that it will have the same product on two different platforms. Its difficult to understand what they are up to.

Hi folks

Just to share with everyone what Oracle has published on their website about .NET:

Ten Application Development Questions Microsoft Doesn't Want You To Ask!

http://www.oracle.com/ip/develop/ids/index.html?toughms2.html

------------------------------------------------

As far as I'm concerned as an OCP Application Developer, Oracle provides us with the iDS (Internet Developer Suite) which enables RAD using the language we know best and prefer to focus on for use in application development: PL/SQL (Procedural Language / SQL).

Programmers who develop on Oracle (those who use the tools Oracle provides) are not worried no matter what the flavor of the moment may be; be it client-server, J2EE, .NET, or XYZ. That's because the core business logic programming will continue to be written in PL/SQL.

Oracle has been positioning itself as an Internet Platform (rather than just a database vendor); much like Bea has been positioning itself as an Internet Platform (rather than just an application server vendor). So, as long as programmers stick to the Oracle iPlatform, and develop in PL/SQL, we'd be fine. That's because the J2EE / .NET / XYZ vendors will always make sure of a way to invoke the PL/SQL components.

Just my 2cents worth of thoughts. Whadaya think? :)

Oracle didn't get the source for the Orion Server. They licensed the binaries. Read the news release at IronFlare.

Oracle has to call the .jar, like the rest of us...IronFlare got license fees, J2EE and other certifications (normally costs upwards of USD$200K), publicity and further word-of-mouth as to the excellence of the product and its price point. They're not beholden to Wall Street, Larry Ellison or anyone else.

Orion paying customers and supporters get better Oracle integration (important to our clients) a route for better Tomacat and Apache integration, and FREE ADDITIONAL SUPPORT FOR OUR CLIENTS FROM ORACLE! FOR NOTHING! BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!...and our favorite Java company stays private and self-sufficient.

Oracle customers get the best J2EE implementation on the planet, even though they pay more than 20X what it costs us. Their decision. They also get to see that there are faster ways to serve static content, mod_perl, sevlets, JSps, and PHP than Apache/TomCat.

OC4J is just the Orion .jar, with hsql and the XML and Jakarta stuff taken out and replaced with the Oracle stuff (they STILL haven't been able to get away from that STUPID mod_plsql in Apache to transition to the Orion Server completely. That's why its only 4X faster than Weblogic, rather than the 40X faster the latest version of OrionServer benchmarks at now).

Try and download JUST OrionServer, go to their benchmark page and download the tests, then go to kx systems at

http://www.kx.com

and do a bit of research. You'll be able to set up a J2EE server cluster that can scale to 1000X faster (yes, we've benchmarked it!) than anything else out there...and you can download it, develop the apps and NEVER PAY TILL YOU DEPLOY!!!!!

But, if you want to pay more than USD$100K bewfore your first developer gets to touch the code to develop a real app, that's your choice!!!!

<quote>
and do a bit of research. You'll be able to set up a J2EE server cluster that can scale to 1000X faster (yes, we've benchmarked it!) than anything else out there...and you can download it, develop the apps and NEVER PAY TILL YOU DEPLOY!!!!!
</quote>

First of all, please keep the uppercase, emphasis and exclamation points down, this is a technical forum, not a high school recess.

Second, unless this has changed recently, Orion is still lacking come critical features for industrial strength applications. Off the top of my head:

- Only supports replication at the RMI level.

- Failover is very primitive: all you can do is specify the maximum number of hits a node can get and only when this number is reached will failover (at the RMI level) occur. There's no support for round-robin or other similar simple algorithms. Calling this failover is misleading.

- But most of all, EJB's are not replicated (neither Entity nor Session, not even SFSB). And this is a huge showstopper for probably 90% of the developers.

It's not all about benchmarks and outrageous claims of speed (four times faster than anything else on the planet? Come on). Let's stick to the facts, okay?

--
Cedric

ok..terefect and success , becomming a honour proggramer

I will try not to get offensive...i will really try (though all your exclamation marks and comments tend me not to do it)

1.- When you state that "Oracle didn't get the source for the Orion Server. " you are clearly showing that you don´t have a clue of what Oracle has licensed.
2.- If you state that "Oracle customers get the best J2EE implementation on the planet, even though they pay more than 20X what it costs us." it means that you don´t have a remote idea of what components are shipped with 9i As
3.- When you say that "OC4J is just the Orion .jar, with hsql and the XML and Jakarta stuff taken out and replaced with the Oracle stuff " means that you don´t have a clue of how OC4J works and where it is different from orion server (someone tha seems to know a little more than you about orion and oc4j has already asnswered you about the ejb clustering and other issues. Please, read some messages below)
4.- When you state that "they STILL haven't been able to get away from that STUPID mod_plsql in Apache. That's why its only 4X faster than Weblogic" you are clearly showing that you don´t have a clue of what a J2EE benchmarks is nor know where the mod_plsql goes.
5.- And finally, When you post all those exclamations marks, you are clearly showing that you think you are in a kind of forum quite different from this one.

Please, try to compair apples to apples...better than that..try to learn what an apple is first.
Regards

Fermin is right.

Sorry, but this "New Oracle Application Server for .NET"
does not make any sense... In my opinion Oracle now has a
great product for java developers. I'm using OC4J (Orion), Oracle XDK, Apache, OID (LDAP Server), WebCache (using JESI), and Oracle Portal in a project. Be sure that they've put a lot of money in this product (remember the old Oracle Application Server?) and they're not going to throw it away for a Microsoft's .NET app server.

Check out the critiques at this site:
http://www.geocities.com/csharpfaq

If you already know C# take the simple tests and prepare to be humbled. Read the answers and you'll see why C# is a mess.