In a recent article, the Meta Group declares that .Net marketshare will increase to 30 percent of enterprise development projects as J2EE use stabilizes at 40 percent by 2004.

Read Java versus .Net.

I think this article was already discussed here.
In the bottom of the article there is a note:
"Originally published in June 20"

"Originally published in June 20"

Hmm, you're right. I thought some of the content in their sounded dated.

My bad. But since there is already a discussion here, I guess I'll leave the thread.

isn't it also one of the reasons why free AP servers are so pupular now?

they are stable, compatible, and they are free.

For J2EE to retain the market share, vendors have to price their App Servers comparable to MS Boxes.

In the enterprise, the price tag is really the determining factor. For Microsoft to compete with J2EE solutions, they'll need to raise their prices. Consider JBoss. A Silicon Valley investor and a $10,000 price tag would do wonders for it's adoption in the enterprise. And a database partnership, a la Orion/Oracle.

For Microsoft to achive 30% penetration in the enterprise by 2004, that would require virtually all existing Microsoft shops to convert to .NET in one year's time. And nobody has yet, except a few visible Microsoft partners who are *paid* by Microsoft to try it.

Among other things, I guess it depends how you define "enterprise development projects". If you're talking about enterprise-wide IS, less than 30% of it runs on Windows today (by several measurements, including dollar figures), so the 30% is a stretch unless they are expecting (a) Windows infrastructure to get much more expensive, (b) IS organizations to suddenly switch huge parts of their infrastructure to Windows and/or (c) .NET to be running on AIX, HPUX, Solaris, OS400 and Linux.

On the other hand, if you define it by systems that used to be VB6, then Java's going to have a hard time keeping up.

Peace,

Cameron Purdy
Tangosol, Inc.
Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!

A very good point, Cameron. My thoughts exactly. I believe that this study is based far more on currently implementations using VB (the Rodney Dangerfield of languages).

Bruce

Cameron,

Netcraft September 30:

"Windows .Net Server, which is not yet scheduled for release, has almost as many as ip addresses as Solaris 9, including some impressive, high volume sites, such as Nasdaq."

http://netcraft.com/survey/

Regards
Rolf Tollerud
 

I hope you noticed it is comaprison between Solaris *9* and .NET server but not a comparison between Solaris and .Net Server.

<I>"Windows .Net Server, which is not yet scheduled for release, has almost as many as ip addresses as Solaris 9, including some impressive, high volume sites, such as Nasdaq."</I>

Using beta OS servers for production clearly demonstrates how much value these CTOs put on reliability. They will certainly have their quotation on MS press release the day they announce Windows.Net. They may even have a couple of dinners, golf game, an incredible deal in the licensing costs and joint advertisement budget ("NASDAQ runs on Windows.net" kind of stuff).

The funny part will come two years from know, when they receive the mandatory License 7.0 upgrade notification.

Kool!!!

Rolf,

"Netcraft September 30: Windows .Net Server, which is not yet scheduled for release, has almost as many as ip addresses as Solaris 9, including some impressive, high volume sites, such as Nasdaq."

Frankly, I'm surprised companies put either outside of their BSD-based firewalls. That's irresponsible, especially considering how many low-level and MITM attacks can still take down Windows and (until recently) Solaris.

BTW, I still find it interesting the .NET Server (e.g. Windows on Itanium) can't even run .NET applications, and according to Microsoft, it still won't when .NET Server ships. So .NET server has nothing to do with .NET? ;-)

Peace,

Cameron Purdy
Tangosol, Inc.
Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!

Cameron,

Nasdaq are running .NET on 32bit boxes.
Windows on Itanium is coming soon. I find it touching that you are so concerned that they can not make it faster.

Regards
Rolf Tollerud
 

Rolf,

Hi again. You are persistent, aren't you?

Rolf: "Nasdaq are running .NET on 32bit boxes."

Nasdaq, Nasdaq, Nasdaq. Microsoft has been touting Nasdaq since 1994 (really!). And that Newport ship building company. Can't a company like Microsoft get more than two references without paying them (like some of the companies that Greg Leake pointed to)?

As much as I joke about it, Nasdaq was a great win for Microsoft, and it apparently did pretty well for Nasdaq too, so I'm not trying to take anything away from a working solution. Heck, if they made it work on Windows, and at the time everyone else was doing it on mainframes, then more power to them! They probably save ten gazillion dollars!

Of course, those days have passed. Windows is no longer the low-cost solutions. NT has gone up about 25x in price since the days that Nasdaq implemented on it. Linux has gone from being a bunch of non-working code booted off a floppy to being a real OS, and it's "free". (I put it in quotes because no software is truly free. A different discussion though.) Linux is also considered more secure and more stable. And it runs Java, so what more could you ask? If you have to "scale up" from Linux (which in and of itself is a somewhat silly concept, having seen Linux on a 100+ CPU system before, and having read of 1000+ CPU clusters of Linux), then you can use Unix (AIX, HPUX, Solaris, Tru64) or even VMS or OS400 (heh). For enterprise systems, that's a really sweet message.

Rolf: "Windows on Itanium is coming soon. I find it touching that you are so concerned that they can not make it faster."

We'll buy it. We'll use it. We'll support it. I just think it's funny that Microsoft's high-end .NET Server won't be able to run .NET applications! But you can already run Java appliations on Microsoft's high-end .NET Server!

Oh, the irony. ".NET: Write once, run on Windows 2k or XP." "Java: Write once, run anywhere. Even on Microsoft platforms that Microsoft can't support yet with their own proprietary platform." Please let me chuckle while I still can ;-)

Peace,

Cameron Purdy
Tangosol, Inc.
Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!

"I just think it's funny that Microsoft's high-end .NET Server won't be able to run .NET applications! But you can already run Java appliations on Microsoft's high-end .NET Server!" -- Cameron

Yes. The .NET crowd keeps insisting that their stuff is theoreticly portable, yet it's Java that appears first on Microsoft's newest box. Really, that says it all.

It's getting hard to find a box that doesn't run Java well.

Our Java app (GUI) just runs on XP. We didn't even know users were until after the fact. Meanwhile 'Windows' programmers are still testing their apps to see if they will work. :)

Cameron,

I like to see where are the links that say Java is running on .NET Server. Strange considering that Sun have not succeeded to make it run correctly on XP yet.

I will not go into an argument with everybody which says IMO incorrect things. After all this is a Java forum. But just one time in a month or so, just as a reminder that there are a lot of people with a different opinion I state:

".NET is light-years ahead of J2EE. The only consolation the religious Java community has is that .NET only exists on Windows but you lock yourself just as effectively to a vendor when you choose a Java application server.
Furthermore so have Ximian now done 2/3 of the port to Linux and soon there will be a not platform-dependable ECMA Standard .NET with an Open Source implementation."
 
and furthermore..

"If you call yourself a programmer, look at and test the quality of the .NET library. Then recall that Sun has a bunch of impractical theorists and that Java is driven by a committee. Then recall that Microsoft have recruited mainly for intelligence for over 15 years now.."

about moral..

If MS is an immoral and/or evil company so is Sun Ten times more immoral/evil. And Scott McNealy is down right stupid.

"It is Microsoft that keeps the prices down"

Just for the record. As a reminder.

Regards
Rolf Tollerud
 

Rolf: "It is Microsoft that keeps the prices down"

Well, that used to be true.

Now, it's open source that keeps Microsoft's prices down ;-)

Peace,

Cameron Purdy
Tangosol, Inc.
Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!

Dear Rolf,

I looked ant .NET libraries and I know java libraries well.
And you know what? Bunch of interfaces and classes in .NET looks like in java. Ups they used java 1.3 javaapi to create .NET libraries ? :) And how you defining quality of libraries? Design ? You know what M$ stuff from OOD point of view sucks and sucked always look at MFC shame of GUI libraries. They even are suggesting their customers to put business logic to stored procedures on MSSQL.
Of course they have good ideas ion language C# and over all. And I'm not saying that .NET sucks, no it's good concept. But not concept makes product good implementation do. So be quite and next time come with better arguments. And don’t read whitepaper and faq on MSDN because it makes you look stupid in public forums.

Theres a 32-bit version of Windows .Net Server.

so you will be able to run .NET framewoek on that.

But Microsoft won't have .NET framework(i.e. the CLR) ported for the Itanium in time for the Itanium release of the Windows.Net server.


if u see what i mean.

"But Microsoft won't have .NET framework(i.e. the CLR) ported for the Itanium in time for the Itanium release of the Windows.Net server"

And?

Using M$ for mission critical applications is simply ridiculous. Why can't M$ stay with products where they have knowledge ? Isn't it enough to sell Windows boxes to end users ?
M$ never had any product ready for the (big) enterprise. I know what I'm talking about.

I remember before Windows 2000 was released, a number of Microsoft sponsored companies I deal with announced how they were running this and that on beta versions, and how its was the most stable and secure system Microsoft had ever produced.

It a shame they couldn't look back from a fews years ahead and see the catalogue of security problems that W2K has had. No new release of an operating system is secure or ready for production use until its had a good hammering out in the real world for at least six months to a year - no matter what Microsoft may tell you.

aaah Not another .Not hype. This is just apauling that we as Java users cannot publish Java stats and its benefits on the MS .Not site but they can on ours. I guess money can buy everything. By the way the prediction of .Not growing like weeds is just a dream just take a reality check as you can see Java is in 80% of market develoment today and growing in years to come. If in my life time if I can see a secure, no memory leak Windows Server then I will pay heed to these kinda crap. Windowsand .Not is are all broken to me... been there done that . Just take a look at MS bug lists on Windows, IE , Exchange server and .Not server ... now let me laugh for while ...now what did you say !!!!

Jamie, thanks for your input. I assure you that TheServerSide does not compromise its news editorial for money. I always bring to TSS' members attention J2EE-related news like this that predicts trends that might affect their lives in the coming years.

To not report on competing platforms (in so far as it may affect the jobs of TSS' members) would be irresponsible in my opinion.

Floyd

Ummm.......

Microsoft can outspend Sun tenfold on anything

Internet Explorer market share: 94.9%

Sun's Stock: 2.59 -0.08

J2EE 40%, .Net 30% (and .Net is still vapour-ware!!!)

Can somebody please give me some sense of security as a Java developer? I truly love Java, but this was a rough week for headlines!!!!

Sun: WAKE UP!!!!! HARDWARE CAN'T DO IT FOR YOU!!!!!

IBM: HELP!!!!!

>Java developer? I truly love Java, but this was a rough
>week for headlines!!!!

If you are a Java developer, you have should no fear. Here in California, the market is much larger for Java developers than for VB or .Net. Java is much, much larger than Sun and is widely accepted and favored in the marketplace so people will be developing with it for hundreds of years.

One might say that J2EE vs. .NET is a replay of "The Cathedral and the Bazaar". Microsoft's tyrannical approach to architecture versus Java's community-based approach. So far, Microsoft is making impressive progress. As a Java developer, that worries me...

Enough about .NET. These are my views, time will tell. But I will not bother you more until next month..

But if you want to see a great Java library look at www.appium.com and download GBox.
http://www.appium.com/products_and_services/application_platform_gbox_b.html

It is an implementation of Parlay API. It can be used to program all Telecom servers and proprietary protocols in the world (assuming they have a Parlay Gateway). I just played with it for some days and suddenly I am a mobile device Service Provider! "Find in the database the person who call", "Call a person with three different phones", "Set up a conference-call with this persons", "group SMS", "location service", "bankifo"", etc. You don't need to have any network or hardware to develop your app! (They have a Parley Gateway/Network emulator).

For these who don't know what Parlay is, there is an excellent introduction from a conference in the form of 5 web casts at,
http://www.parlay.org/news/events/meeting020502/event.html

Amazing!

Regards
Rolf Tollerud

Rolf - "Sun has a bunch of impractical theorists"


Yes, that might explain why MSFT has switched to java
under their own brand-name.

Now if only they'd do the Pet store with patterns.