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News: Microsoft files counterclaim against Sun

  1. Microsoft files counterclaim against Sun (18 messages)

    Microsoft has filed a counterclaim in Sun Microsystems' private antitrust lawsuit against the software giant, with Microsoft claiming that Sun broke a contract that allowed Microsoft to distribute its own version of Java. Microsoft claim the two companies had an agreement allowing Microsoft to distribute its version of the Java Virtual Machine through 2008.

    Sun's current lawsuit claims that Microsoft has tried to kill developer interest in using Java by distributing its own version that is incompatible with the version of Java controlled by Sun. Microsoft's goal, Sun lawyers claim, was to confuse developers and drive them to use Microsoft's .Net platform instead of Java.

    Read information about claim

    Threaded Messages (18)

  2. Microsoft files counterclaim against Sun[ Go to top ]

    what nonsense, as long as ms was distributing jvm and not mvm Sun would not have filed. ms broke the rules, ms was caught, and ms should be punished.

    -Tom
  3. Microsoft files counterclaim against Sun[ Go to top ]

    I wonder do the lawyers who are obviously the driving force behind all these suits really understand what they are arguing about. DO they know what a JVM is, apart from a few phrases they bring up at trial time.

    Isnt it about time that we all agreed that fair play is needed. And before the floodgates open I must say that I have used M$ technologies in the past and now am using Java as a personal choice I made.

    No nonsense about speed, efficiency, benchmarks and all that. The right tool for the job is the simple message here. Try and do a job without the right tool and the job will ultimately fail.

    Frankly I am a bit sick of all this confrontation..how about we all just get on with developing software the best we can.
  4. Microsoft files counterclaim against Sun[ Go to top ]

    Frankly I am a bit sick of all this confrontation..how about we all just get on with developing software the best we can.


    I'd actually would like nothing better, however the choices avaiable for technology adoption is usually determined within a business context. Therefore being complacent imho is not as prudent as juding a company's business intent and strategy...in this case m$'s e&e (embrace and extend) isn't trying to create the best technology available but to fragment java technologies, hinder its growth, create misperceptions...all so that m$ technologies would be adopted.
  5. Java to C#: The Deepest Cut[ Go to top ]

    I wanted to relay my angst over my decision to port one of my apps from Java to C# in order to come into line with company policy.

    In the begining, there were several reasons why we chose Microsoft SQL Server as the database behind this application, but eventually the speed of SQL Server Stored Procedures (~20X faster in certain circumstances) became the predominant one.

    Eventually however, various situations drove us to support other databases, but fortunately, the Java 2 PreparedStatement came along and salvaged much of the speed we were getting with SQL Server Stored Procedures.

    After Running the Java to C# Language Conversion Utility, a number of issues remained regarding the use of PreparedStatement. It turns out C# supports an equivalent, SqlDataAdapter, but it only works with SQL Server, so if you want high SQL performance with C#, resign yourself to SQL Server - Stored Procedures, SqlDataAdapter, or both.

    -Tom Schaefer
  6. Faster than what? :)[ Go to top ]

    Thomas Schaefer wrote:
    > the speed of SQL Server Stored Procedures (~20X faster in certain circumstances) became the predominant one.

    Faster than what? :)

    If you mean "faster than prepared statement" - yes, I agree.

    But it depending on how many data persistent logic you put into prepared statement. If you have implemented Object relation mapping to database using single class - single table, then SP (for example Java Stored Procedure) gives you more power and less network traffic. If you have NO inheritance mapping and just simple classes - then you can use Prepared statements (especially in batch). Prepared statements with batch gives you almost same speed as SP (except parsing first time and net traffic)

    Java Stored Procedure can solve partially problem with portability. Unfortunately for us, MS does not support Java SP.
     
    T-SQL SP as well as PL/SQL - NOT portable at all :)

    Sincerely
    Sergey Litsenko
  7. Java to C#: RTFM[ Go to top ]

    Come on, deciding in advance that the technology your boss wants you to work with is crap is going to achieve only one goal: creating crappy software.

    If you had just checked the docs, you would have seen that SqlDataAdpter derives from IDbDataAdapter, which derives from IDataAdapter. And guess what: there are other specialized adapters that derive from the same interfaces for OleDB, ODBC, Oracle, etc.
    You can even use MySql.

    I've seen sentences like "I hate Microsoft" on this forum many times, and I think that's the main problem here.
    Why don't you stop hating, and start thinking, for a change.
  8. Java to C#: The Deepest Cut[ Go to top ]

    In the begining, there were several reasons why we chose Microsoft SQL Server

    > as the database behind this application, but eventually the speed of SQL
    > Server Stored Procedures (~20X faster in certain circumstances) became the
    > predominant one.

    Sorry if Im asking a stupid question, but why couldnt you call the stored procedured from Java? I dont see how the choice of using stored procedures would impact the choice of programming language.
  9. A message seemed to imply that an equivalent to SqlDataAdapter could be written for any database. I'm not sure I'm competent to do that, but it sure would be nice if someone would write a class that would allow one to write standard SQL, pass a database name as an argument to it perhaps, and have the C# equivalent of PreparedStatement in Java.

    In fact we DID call SQL Server stored procedures from Java, but they had to be removed from the code when a desktop version for Access was desired, and later also for an Oracle version. The example below executes ~20X faster as a stored procedure on SQL Server than the equivalent statement executes:
    =============
    CREATE PROC SuperScore @UserID nvarchar(20), @SurveyNumber int AS
     SELECT Projects.ProjectNumber, Users.UserID, SUM(WEIGHTING.WeightingValue * QUESTIONS.QuestionWeight * ALTERNATIVES.Score)
    FROM CRITERIA, QUESTIONS, ALTERNATIVES, RESPONSES,
        WEIGHTING, USERS, PROJECTS
    WHERE QUESTIONS.QuestionNumber = ALTERNATIVES.QuestionNumber
         AND QUESTIONS.CriteriaID = CRITERIA.ID AND
        ALTERNATIVES.ResponseAlternative = RESPONSES.ResponseAlternative
         AND WEIGHTING.CriteriaID = CRITERIA.ID AND
        WEIGHTING.UserID LIKE @UserID AND
        Responses.USERID = Users.UserID AND
        Responses.PROJECTNUMBER IN
            (SELECT Projects.ProjectNumber
          WHERE Projects.SurveyNumber = @SurveyNumber)
    GROUP BY Users.UserID, Projects.ProjectNumber
    ORDER BY Projects.ProjectNumber, Users.UserID
    GO
    =============
    I've wondered about why that is. Is it because I write crummy SQL? Is it because setting up the execution plan for something like this takes forever on SQL Server? Both? In any case, the .Net version will again use this Stored Procedure since SqlDataAdapter to loop through a series of UserIDs would be specific to Sql Server anyway.
  10. Abstract Factory anyone?[ Go to top ]

    <quote>
    In fact we DID call SQL Server stored procedures from Java, but they had to be removed from the code when a desktop version for Access was desired, and later also for an Oracle version.


    You don't have to remove Stored Procedures to have your product work with multiple databases. You can use the Abstract Factory pattern and have a distinct DB layer for each database. Your product will be much faster using Oracle or SqlServer stored procedures.(And I think the big money will come from the clients using MSSQL and Oracle, not the Access ones, although I might be wrong) The trade-off is that you'll have additional db code to maintain.

    Horea Hopartean
  11. According to the filing, Microsoft is only upset because Sun "deprived Microsoft of the quiet enjoyment of technology it licensed." That certainly does not seem fair, for Sun to deprive Microsoft of its enjoyment. I'm certain that any competent judge would be able to help them both work through their issues, so that both companies can again enjoy themselves. Perhaps the judge will even consider the enjoyment (or lack thereof) of the consumer in regards to these cases.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!
  12. That's the only response that makes any sense to me.
  13. It's good that Microsoft pulls stunts like this because each one drives us developers away even further. I hate Microsoft and everything they're doing regarding Java.
  14. SUN too has a stupid claim[ Go to top ]

    <quote>
    Sun lawyers claim Microsoft's goal was to confuse developers and drive them to use Microsoft's .Net platform instead of Java.

    How can microsoft CONFUSE developers & drive them to use .Net. Only stupids can be confused by a company to select a particular technology to use.

    TOMORROW SUN WOULD SAY "Microsoft confused investors to sell SUN stock and buy only MSFT stock. Thats why SUNW stock is low and MSFT is doing fine."

    Both the companies have stupid lawyers i guess.
    MS has a lot of money to fight anything.
    SUN currently has nothing to do as its almost on verge of going under.

    Guys let them fight, we will see who has the stupidest lawyers :).
  15. We are in the dark ages now ...where Evil Empire M$ rules the world.

    I hope people understand what M$ is doing. M$ goal is to kill Java and Linux.
    I hope people adopt's Linux as their desktop and Openoffice as this where M$ profit is. I am using it and appreciate linux desktop.
  16. Regardless of all the partisan convictions I may have about this debate, I find this piece in the article rather amusing:

    <quote>
    Microsoft's goal, Sun lawyers claim, was to confuse developers and drive them to use Microsoft's .Net platform instead of Java.


    "confuse developers"? I'm a Java developer... in what way can the VM "confuse" me? And if I continue using MVM, will I find myself, one fine morning, writing J# code instead of Java? I may be being naive, but exactly what claim is this lawyer making on my (and any John Q Javadeveloper's) IQ?
  17. It wasn't the MVM[ Go to top ]

    The main dispute was that the compiler for Microsoft Visual J++ produced broken code that could only run on windows (if at all.) The problems with Microsoft's VM were secondary. Both "confused developers" because those that used Microsoft's Java branded products were led to believe that Java was not cross platform, and that the JVM was buggy and unpolished. The majority of users were exposed to java through applets running in Microsoft's VM, but Microsoft can claim that the poor VM was an engineering flaw, not a conscious decision (I at least partially believe them), but the breaking of binary compatability was a direct violation of the licensing contract with Sun, even if it was unintentional (which I doubt.)
  18. <Opinion>
    I think the main issue was J++ programmers...alot of them were VB converts who wanted to get out of the VB box and learn java. Problem was Microsoft rangled them into staying with Microsoft because of the Microsoft VM.

    If Microsoft's extensions could be used on any VM (but native to Windows) Microsoft probably would not have broken their inital agreement


    I am currently in the process of moving my personal systems to Linux and MacOS (yes, Apple is really a good alternative to MS). I doubt that my conversion will hurt microsoft, but I know I wont be supporting MS's actions.
  19. Most of the reponses here talk abt NOT supporting MS and its "POLICIES".
    I m not supporting or opposing anyone here. I think what MS office and other MS products have given us cannot be simply "ignored" or "put away" because even though linux , star office and other MS competitive products are also good/cheap, they still have long way to go in terms of standardization, stability and support.
        I m not sure how the corporate world react , specially if the business people - non techie people in general are forced to learn / use non MS products. Even though we use it at home, would we be able to do the same in our offices. ??? I m sure we can force people , but the question is how much has the open source caught up with non techie population and how easy it is for that population to make the switch. Its a open ended question, I would like to know more from the TSS community.