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News: Sun To Open Source Java, But when? or will they?

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  1. Sun To Open Source Java, But when? or will they? (20 messages)

    • Posted by: Mark Rohan
    • Posted on: June 04 2004 08:26 EDT
    Earlier in the week, Sun announced that Solaris will be open sourced in the future. To back that up, Sun's Java Technology Evangelist Raghavan Srinivas says Java will be also open sourced. As with the Solaris comment, what hasn't be mentioned are details such as "when" and "how".

    Update: Scott McNealy just came out squashing the idea

    Read: Sun to open-source Java

    Sun warms to open source for Solaris

    Sun COO Schwartz Promises Open Source Solaris

    Sun's Scott McNealy squashes idea of Java becoming open source
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    Threaded Messages (20)

  2. Sun's Scott McNealy squashes idea of Java becoming open source[ Go to top ]

    http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/news_story.php?id=58628

    Regards,

    Nicolas
    Reply to this Reply to original

  3. Why?[ Go to top ]

    Why doesn't IBM make its own implementation of Java SDK Open Source? They already have their own Java, so what's holding them up from making it open source as they want it so much? Why must it be Sun's implementation specifically, and not any other out there?

    puzzled,
    Henrique Steckelberg
    Reply to this Reply to original

  4. Reply[ Go to top ]

    Why doesn't IBM make its own implementation of Java SDK Open Source? They already have their own Java, so what's holding them up from making it open source as they want it so much? Why must it be Sun's implementation specifically, and not any other out there?puzzled,Henrique Steckelberg
    Probably because the IBM license with Sun disallows this. I don't think the license is public, but that is the only real excuse. Otherwise they are just trying to buy Sun or get media attention.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  5. IBM JDK Lag[ Go to top ]

    IBM's JDK has historically lagged behind the current JDK specification (current JDK for WebSphere 5 is 1.3.1). I doubt that many people would jump onto an IBM JDK bandwagon unless they can speed up the release cycle for their own JDK / JVM. Of course, it'd be sure to cause them a good deal of havoc with customer demand for them to update WebSphere / WebSphere Studio to utilize the latest JDK / JVM features available in their own product.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  6. IBM JDK Lag[ Go to top ]

    Just because a version of an Application Server ships with a JDK that is older does not mean the IBM JDK itself lags. WebSphere and the IBM JDK are 2 different things. IBM JDK's come out in a timely fashion. The lag is perhaps testing the AppServer with the new JDK, so this is a false statement. WebSphere 5.1 which has been out for about 6 months is on JDK 1.4.1 so your WAS statement is false as well.

    And I do not think IBM can open source their Java JDK because of agreements with Sun.

    Comments my own, not IBM's
    Reply to this Reply to original

  7. Opening Up & Licensing Java Question[ Go to top ]

    I think Java is already open enough, but opening the source would bring a larger following. Although, I doubt it would bring many followers locked in to M$.NET. It would however ease the fear that Sun would try to do what M$ is trying to do. I think it is more of a political move to bring in more support and media attention. I do not think it will affect the future of the Java language much. If you think it will please provide some specific examples.

    Do I need to pay Sun anything if I release a java program to the public if it is built with a Java SDK from Sun?

    This would not include distribution of the JVM or J2SDK.

    Would opening up java change this?
    Reply to this Reply to original

  8. Opening Up & Licensing Java Question[ Go to top ]

    2 Travis Berthelot
    >>>I think it is more of a political move to bring in more support and media attention.

    You forget that opening java will immediately put it in all linux distributions.
    This is huge. It is much more than political move or media attention.
    This is the only way linux and java can compete with windows+dotnet
    Reply to this Reply to original

  9. Opening Up & Licensing Java Question[ Go to top ]

    You forget that opening java will immediately put it in all linux distributions.
    Might I point out that the bundling problem is primarily with the linux distros and not with Sun.

    Why is it that some distros (e.g. RedHat, debian) refuse to bundle the latest JRE from Sun while other distros (SuSE, Linspire, Xandros) will?

    Answer: not technical, not legal, but political!
    Reply to this Reply to original

  10. Opening Up & Licensing Java Question[ Go to top ]

    2 Paul-Michael Bauer:

    Well. You are probably referring to commercial distributions that can bundle not only JRE but any other closed and paid software.
    But open (freely downloadable) distributions, i doubt they include JRE.
    Can you post here links to such free distributions that contain JRE ?
    Reply to this Reply to original

  11. Opening Up & Licensing Java Question[ Go to top ]

    You are probably referring to commercial distributions that can bundle not only JRE but any other closed and paid software. But open (freely downloadable) distributions, i doubt they include JRE. Can you post here links to such free distributions that contain JRE ?
    You are right.
    Those distros I listed are all commercial and I have not been able to find (in the last 20min) a free linux distro that bundles Sun's JRE (some of these opt to include Kaffe instead which would preclude bundling Sun's JRE).

    However, FreeBSD does officially support Java.
    FreeBSD

    "The FreeBSD Foundation has negotiated a license with Sun Microsystems to distribute FreeBSD binaries for the Java Runtime Environment (JRE™) and Java Development Kit (JDK™)"
    Reply to this Reply to original

  12. Opening Up & Licensing Java Question[ Go to top ]

    The FreeBSD Foundation has negotiated a license with Sun Microsystems to distribute FreeBSD binaries for the Java Runtime Environment (JRE™) and Java Development Kit (JDK™)
    I'm afraid this quote just prooves that it is impossible to distribute JRE with linux. You have to "negotiate" it with Sun in each particular case.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  13. RE: Opening Up & Licensing Java Question[ Go to top ]

    2 Paul-Michael Bauer:Well. You are probably referring to commercial distributions that can bundle not only JRE but any other closed and paid software.But open (freely downloadable) distributions, i doubt they include JRE. Can you post here links to such free distributions that contain JRE ?
    Slackware is the oldest surviving Linux distro, is freely downloadable, and includes the Sun JDK. Here is the URL for the Sun SDK package listing: http://www.slackware.com/pb/?vers=slackware-9.1&set=d&package=j2sdk-1_4_2_01-i586-1
    Reply to this Reply to original

  14. Re: Opening Up & Licensing Java Question[ Go to top ]

    Might I point out that the bundling problem is primarily with the linux distros and not with Sun.Why is it that some distros (e.g. RedHat, debian) refuse to bundle the latest JRE from Sun while other distros (SuSE, Linspire, Xandros) will?Answer: not technical, not legal, but political!
    For the most part, the problem is legal. Sun's license for the JRE places restrictions on distributing the code in binary form that basically make it impossible for distros that primarily rely on free FTP installs to distribute it. This includes Fedora, Debian, the free-as-in-beer version of SuSE - in other words, pretty much all of the home desktop Linux market.

    Commercially distributed (OEM or shrinkwrap) Linux companies are able to meet Sun's licensing terms: hence Xandros, Linspire and the retail version of SuSE. RedHat chooses not to, which makes it the only case of "political".
    Reply to this Reply to original

  15. Distribution question[ Go to top ]

    RedHAT has just quited the "free-as-beer" OS land,
    no more pay-free distributions. Will their RedHat
    enterprise include JRE? This is irrelevant, home
    Linux installations will use a free Distro, Debian
    or Fedora.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  16. Distribution[ Go to top ]

    Yes, the world needs freely-distributable binary JRE!
    This is the way to break out from the M$-lockin.
    And this is needed urgently. What license will cover
    the sources is a less important question.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  17. PcPro article sounds couple of months old ...[ Go to top ]

    It's unclear from the article, since it's fairly poorly written, but FOSE was in April. I think someone dredged up that McNealy quote and made it look like he said it today. Trolls.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  18. Sun To Open Source Java, But when? or will they?[ Go to top ]

    Honestly i don't care how much it is open. Probably opening it will be a good thing but if it lead to fragmentation in implementations what IBM have to say ?
    You like it or not IBM already take Application server market, Palm Java section , IDE , and some more things. Now probably they are going to have the defecto J2se distribution. God knows.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  19. Sun To Open Source Java, But when? or will they?[ Go to top ]

    I don't care Open source JDK!
    Reply to this Reply to original

  20. FOSE 2004 was March 23-25[ Go to top ]

    The "came out and denied" article states: "At a news conference during the public sector technology showcase FOSE 2004, McNealy said he couldn't understand how open sourcing Java would solve anything."

    The FOSE web site states: "When and where is FOSE 2004? FOSE 2004 is March 23-25, 2004 at the Washington, DC Convention Center."

    ( http://www.fose.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=custom.wel_faqs )

    If the statement PCPro seems to base their claim on was made, it was made a few months ago, not "just" now. I wasn't able to find other sources for that claim from that article.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  21. How does Sun make money from Java and if so how much?[ Go to top ]

    Can someone comment on how much Sun spends on Java and how much it realy makes in return?
    Reply to this Reply to original