Discussions

News: Sandra 0.5 Released: RiA-SoA with JDNC

  1. Sandra 0.5 Released: RiA-SoA with JDNC (7 messages)

    What is SandraSF.com?

    1st, What is JDNC? JDNC contains new Swing Extensions, *MUCH* improved Swing relative to SWT. Swing extensions will be a part of Mustang-Java6, but able to run on “older” v1.42 and v1.5 JVMs.
    2nd, One nice thing about Struts and such was that they came with everything you needed to develop back when: jsp tags, validation, formbeans, how to access DAO, etc; you did not need to get 5 things integrated.

    ... therefore

    Sandra is a toolkit that comes with a minimal set of tools that you need to develop with. It aims to help popularize doing RiA-SoA w/ JDNC demonstrating a repeatable architecture.

    Download 0.5 release from http://sourceforge.net/projects/sandrasf
    * you will need to join free http://sandraSF/forums to be able to unzip the download

    On http://sandraSF.com there are free support forums and JavaDoc. You may want to start reading the javadocs in org.sandra.api package. It defines MVC and remote service interface +DAO. This way other RiA-SoA implementations are possible.
    There are also links and samples, so you can compare JDNC to Flex for RiA for example.
    * A sample sandraSF commercial application similar to Laszlo Mail will be linked in samples shortly, before year end. Updates will be frequent as per open source motto: ”release early and often”.

    You may want to "purchase" the documentation subscription. It's a 75 page cookbook tutorial/mentors notebook of how to go about building a JDNC RiA-SoA application. The price is quite reasonable.

    I believe RiA-SoA takes the best of Client-Server such as PowerBulider and combines it w/ best of webapps, such as Struts/LAMP.

    Check it out or help develop a community on RiA-SoA.
    Marry X-mass ’04 to RiA-SoA.

    Threaded Messages (7)

  2. Flex and Lazlo vs Java Desktop UI[ Go to top ]

    1.There is an email and a blog porgram writen in each:
    http://www.sandrasf.com/sites
    I wonder which people like more? Flash UI of or Java UI?
    Comments?

    http://www.sandrasf.com/training
    2.I wonder if there will be a demand to conver WebApps to RiA in 6 months? If so.. mentors can do training, the docs and slides are provided. Like ... how to get a DAO results over a remote service to JDNC, and have it browser launched.

    3.I will post a sample application that is pure JDNC by year end.

    Have a marry :-)

    .V
  3. Java UI[ Go to top ]

    I am all for Java UI, however there are things, which IMO prevent wider Java UI adoption:

    - Lack of common repository of Java libraries. That means that every JNLP distributor has to provide all the common libraries: Jakarta-commons**, log4j, etc. you name it.

    This is frustrating because 3rd party stuff is 95% of the download size and client machine ends up with hundreds of copies of the same log4j library downloaded from different sites.

    - Really strange ‘support’ of Applets in JavaWebStart - .. it forces them to be applications via Applet Launcher. They cannot be page components with JWS anymore. Bad-bad-bad we need Page Components, we really do.
    This is very frustrating because it does not allow using JWS cache for easy and quick subsequent applet starts and UPDATES (predictable caching). Applet, Object, and Embed tags are really mess (http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/plugin/developer_guide/using_tags.html)
  4. Java UI[ Go to top ]

    I am all for Java UI, however there are things, which IMO prevent wider Java UI adoption:- Lack of common repository of Java libraries. That means that every JNLP distributor has to provide all the common libraries: Jakarta-commons**, log4j, etc. you name it.

    As long as the developer can choose to use the global cache or not, then fine. Having delt with "DLL Hell" and now GAC Hell, the extra download is worth the time. I also avoid system classpath for the very same reason.
    Really strange support of Applets in JavaWebStart -
    Not sure why you need to do applets in JWS. It effectively replaces them.
  5. Java UI[ Go to top ]

    ... Lack of common repository of Java libraries. That means that every JNLP distributor has to provide all the common libraries: Jakarta-commons**, log4j, etc. you name it.
    As long as the developer can choose to use the global cache or not, then fine. Having delt with "DLL Hell" and now GAC Hell, the extra download is worth the time.

    If 20 applications use log4j-a.b.c.jar what harm would one time download from repository done? How 20 downloads are beneficial?
    I also avoid system classpath for the very same reason.
    I guess you are confused. I do not suggest placing all the libraries in a common classpath. JNLP dictates the exact classpath, same way you do, but instead of requiring the same library get downloaded from distributor, it could use repository reference.

    In fact the mechanism is already in place: JNLP packages from the same server could reference another library JNLP.
    See 'extension' tag http://vamphq.com/jnlpref.html#extension
    Really strange support of Applets in JavaWebStart -
    Not sure why you need to do applets in JWS. It effectively replaces them.
    It does not. Applet is a HTML page component, and sometimes it is very convenient to have a functionally rich component or two on otherwise heavily HTML oriented site.
  6. Java UI[ Go to top ]

    Konstatin,
    I think you would agree that as more people have more broadband .. that point will either get fixed or won't matter.

    I would like to know, I have linked side by side a blog and email applications, one in Java, the others in Flash:

     Which do you think THE USER would like better?

    (who realy cares how much we developers have to suffer :-( )

    .V
  7. Blog tool comparison feedback[ Go to top ]

    I tried to use the two blog tools linked from the Sandra site.

    BlogBridge (Java)
    1. clicked on BlogBridge link and discovered that my Win XP box had no JVM (with webstart at least)
    2. went to sun's download page manually since there was no link
    3. downloaded JDK 1.4.2
    4. discovered I have a VERY fast connection since all 54 megs came quite quickly (I think all I needed for webstart was JRE but I need the JDK... of course I'm used to this sort of thing, unlike my father in law ;-)
    5. installed JDK
    6. went back to the Sandra site
    7. clicked on BlogBridge link
    8. it worked and I like the GUI just fine

    BlogReader (Flex)
    1. clicked on the BlogReader link
    2. FireFox offered a "click to install pluggin"
    3. I clicked it
    4. selected flash player 7 plugin and clicked "install" (or whatever the button said
    5. waited and waited but apparently the pluggin didn't instal after 20 minutes or so
    6. :-(

    I'm not anti-Flex and this is the first time I've had this sort of trouble. Nonetheless it seems both camps need to work on their user friendliness.

    ,boz
  8. Java UI[ Go to top ]

    I am a bad person to ask because I am developer and not ‘User’. Anyway: there are my thoughts:
    - Java Standalone Application looks and feels better but I do not need a standalone application. Well, it sounds awkward, let me explain: I already have my favorite standalone email application and do not want another, simply because I do not keep all my email on server and sharing of local e-mail databases between applications is a pain. Therefore I tend to like Flash email client because it is a component of a browser page on some presumably integrated site (well, I do prefer that was an Applet )

    If I would need to create a standalone application I will choose Swing for sure, but at this time I need an integrated technology. Lets consider this use imaginary case:
    1. I browse a corporate site and I am quite happy with browser’s handling of HTML and multimedia content;
    2. I have encountered a ‘protected’ resource and have provided my credentials to see a particular part of the site – everything is fine so far;
    3. As employee of the company I want to fill in my timesheet and I want desktop type convenience, oops! Troubles just began:
    - JWS application pops up and confuses hell lot of me asking to provide my credentials again;
    - Damn! I am lost again in those multiple windows;
    - I see a help button and press it: bang! Another browser window pops-up (hope it is not another browser or it will ask credentials again), or help appears in a small Swing window (damn, it is less convenient than browser, I want to press my CTRL++ to scale font up, ahgrrr);
    - I press CTRL+P and nothing gets printed, rrrr!

    Applet or Flash page component seems much more appropriate for the scenario above, and I suspect that the scenario is very common.
    IMO Portlet technology is the attempt to address the use case above, but it is a wrong approach. Ubiquitous support for real page components (Applets preferably) is what we really need.
    SwixML + Hessian RPC protocol make Applets very attractive and easy to develop.
    Sun, please support and promote Applets.