Microsoft has learned from Sun and the Java Pet Store reference implementation by making available a beta of "MS Reference Architecture for B2C Commerce", a complete installable sample Web site, including source code and Architecture guides.

Hope you guys don't mind all the Microsoft coverage on TSS, but as Enterprise Java developers, it is good to follow the old addage: "Keep your friend close, and your enemies even closer". :)

Check out the MS Reference Architecture for Commerce - B2C.

Floyd,

Why do we have to consider Microsoft to be the "enemy".

I work at IBM and have no hidden agenda. But this "us and them" mentality does not go far to building bridges.

Sheldon

Floyd,

Why do all the Sun forums make it a point to have a go at Microsoft? FYI... there are more than this example which Microsoft has and has had even before the Pet Store example. Guess you haven't been keeping the "enemies" close.

Now, I have nothing against either of the technologies. I have had the pleasure of working on both. Both have their strengths and weeknesses. In the end both work towards the same goal.

This is very much being highlighted by the UDDI initiative. I just wonder why Sun never became a part of it (Any answers?). I must add its a pleasure to see IBM and microsoft work hand in hand on this one.

By resorting to petty bickering we are only wasting precious time, which could have been used to do more constructive work.

Cheers!

Sun has joined the UDDI effort. But as an original member of the UDDI effort, I can assure you that working with MS was NO pleasure. IBM, on the other hand, was great to work with! I was there. Were you?

Regards, Mike

Hey guys,

   I should have realized that my comment would have been taken this way :). Trust me, I am not a MS hater. I rely on MS Outlook like a fish relies on water. :)

   However MS is producing software that is most definitly a competitor to J2EE. As a competitor, it is constructive for us to keep tabs on what they are up to. Just like any company is always aware of what it's comptetition is doing.

   I only mentioned that "enemy" quote as a metaphor to illustrate why TheServerSide has coverage of Microsoft Technology, even though we are "Your J2EE Portal". I didn't intend to enter into the MS is evil debate, which I agree is both foolish and non-constructive. :)

Floyd

The irony is, I am an ex-Microsoft employee myself. I used to work on MS Office.

Additionally, I used to train on ASP, Javascript, VBScript, COM, ActiveX and the older style Microsoft web technologies before migrating to the enterprise Java world in 97.

I'm still a huge fan of Microsoft and their ability to be innovative, but I like the approach and motivation behind J2EE technologies. It never hurts to have a vested interest in a single technology.

Perhaps it can be considered like this: I'm going to root for the Ravens on Sunday and call the Giants the enemy, but I'm still a Giants fan, too ;)

Tyler

Do you consider Java Petstore an application ?
What about performance figures, are there anywhere to be found, about any J2EE application ?

Of course, we as Java developers are proud to talk about scalability, high availability and ... you name it, but if we pretend we don't see problems, and get into vaporware , we risk losing the "marketability" of our skills.

It seems to me that to say "Microsoft has learned from Sun" is a little bit dishonest.

First of all, because Microsoft had several applications like that (maybe they were not published as a "reference implementation") long ago.
Second, I was again surprised to see that Microsoft did its job a lot better than Sun.

Ha! That'll be the day. I have no vested interest in plugging Sun but at least they eat what they dish out. Did you notice that the Microsoft sample application is written entirely using C++? Where is the vaunted C#? Where is the OO Visual Basic 7? Are we still tied to the same tired old technology that brought us memory leaks, complexity and a proliferation of unmaintainable code?

This haggle over Sun and MS seems similar to haggle between Pakistan and India. All of Pakistan's strategies are always aimed towards India where as India's strategies always address issues in larger perspective. India doesn't consider Pakistan as an enemy. It's just like anyother problem child.

Similarly, all of Sun's press issues regarding their technology are aimed at MS. It fails to realize that the drastic change in technology since 1995 was initiated by Microsoft with all it's suits of rapid development tools. Sun was more of a follower, even in distributed computing. With their kind of attitude Sun and Oracle are earning a bad reputation for themselves in the competitive industry. What MS has done the smart way, Sun and Oracle are doing the hard way by hurling time wasting allegations and bringing the competition the the level of personal fight. To be a giant, you have to behave like a giant.

It's foolhardiness to keep your eyes closed and consider such a software giant as an enemy. This is an era of strategic partnerships and Sun should learn from IBM and MS. It was this attitude of Sun that gave an early advantage to MS to focus more on selling strategy rather than focussing on petty issues that won't take any company too far.

I realize this reply is a bit out of context but coming from a business major I'm not too deep into technology. I visit this site out of my interest too revive my technology background from time to time.

Hate to burst the bubble of the person who said the MS Pet Shop was written entirely in C++. That simply is not the case. The .NET Pet Shop is written entirely in C# and run in their new .NET managed execution environment. MS is eating what they dole out, just like Sun. Its very interesting to me that the MS managed execution environment seems to be very fast indeed, and it is also very OO, unlike their past VB RAD technology.

-Jim

If Microsoft really wants to be innovative, how about publishing the full .NET spec and bolstering a multivendor market?

This thread : http://theserverside.com/discussion/thread.jsp?thread_id=4306 might also be of interest in the -

J2EE vs M$ .NET debate...