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Blogs: MS License: Using Java Could Lead to Death

  1. MS License: Using Java Could Lead to Death (30 messages)

    Have you ever really read the license agreements that come with the software that you use on a daily basis? Yakov Fain did and to his surprise he found that Microsoft warns it's users that using Java maybe fatal.
    The software product may contain support for programs written in Java. Java technology is not fault tolerant and is not designed, manufactured, or intended for use or resale as on-line control equipment in hazardous environments requiring fail-safe performance, such as in the operation of nuclear facilities, aircraft navigation or communication systems, air traffic control, direct life support machines , or weapon systems, in which the failure of Java technology could lead directly to death, personal injury, or severe physical or environmental damage.


    Is this marketing gone mad or does Microsoft know something that we don't?

    Threaded Messages (30)

  2. I have noticed that since I have started using Java, 8 years ago, I am loosing my hair and I am gaining some weight.
    Maybe it is due to Java?
    Do you think I shall sue Sun?
    ;-)
  3. License[ Go to top ]

    This used to be the wording of the license in 1.0.x and (I think) 1.1.x JVMs... quite amusing though :-)
  4. Re: License[ Go to top ]

    This used to be the wording of the license in 1.0.x and (I think) 1.1.x JVMs... quite amusing though :-)

    I recall that wording being in there too. Used to see it every time I installed a new JDK version.

    As part of one of their legal "truces" with Sun, didn't Microsoft keep their JVM at JDK 1.1.4? At the time, I think Sun was at version 1.3 or 1.4.

    I like how one of the other posters listed all of the mission critical apps running on Java. Well done!
  5. OoOoOoOoh really !!!!!!![ Go to top ]

    well that is nonsense because simply using a pencil could lead to death if it went through ur eyes so people don't try to put it near thier eyes but that does not mean we have to stop using pencil we only need not to use it wrongly i think that is really unprofessional to publish thing like that java is great language and it made technology reveloution these last years we should remember that .NET framework idea built basically on java theroies.
  6. Wow....[ Go to top ]

    IS MS starting a new insurance business in backend!!!!
  7. I have noticed that since I have started using Java, 8 years ago, I am loosing my hair and I am gaining some weight.Maybe it is due to Java?Do you think I shall sue Sun?;-)

    Bruno, you made my day :)))) To prove your suspisions, try to switch to Microsoft. You'll become thin and hairy again in no time :)

    Happy New Year!

    Yakov
  8. It's based on the java license[ Go to top ]

    Even the Java LICENSE file contains the basis of this warning in the RESTRICTIONS section:

    "You acknowledge that Licensed Software is not designed or
    intended for use in the design, construction, operation or maintenance of any nuclear facility. Sun Microsystems, Inc. disclaims any express or implied warranty of fitness for such uses."

    Microsoft is just making sure it's really clear what could happen if you violate the java license.
  9. From Sun's license agreement:

    "You acknowledge that Licensed Software is not designed or
    intended for use in the design, construction, operation or
    maintenance of any nuclear facility."

    From the horse's mouth....

    Granted, it's still a long way from actually threatening lives of innocent users.
  10. JMARS[ Go to top ]

    For all those J-Illitrates & MS-Buffs

    MARS TWIn ROVERS programs were coded in so called "JAVA". The place were no can even imagine, how it looks and feels are been explored by jvm's omni-present in mars for pictures and scientific experiments.

    LOL: Any takers..... Caption- Java Tiger- "Our JVM's makes off-roads driving even in mars possible"
  11. I'm sure there are others. But my wife is a controls engineer. She writes "ladder logic", essentially switching bits. It's my guess that the systems M$ is talking about referrs to embedded systems, and has nothing to do with Java or .NET

    Additionally, I've read (if it's on the internet it must be true, right?) where the International Space Station's power and life support systems are written in assembler. One Astronaut to another: "oh no life support just got the blue screen of death, take a deep breath while I try to reboot!"
  12. really java kills!![ Go to top ]

    who wants to live forever. i want to die in one shot .. then to die daily by usig other languages..
  13. Have you ever really read the license agreements that come with the software that you use on a daily basis? Yakov Fain did and to his surprise he found that Microsoft warns it's users that using Java maybe fatal.
    The software product may contain support for programs written in Java. Java technology is not fault tolerant and is not designed, manufactured, or intended for use or resale as on-line control equipment in hazardous environments requiring fail-safe performance, such as in the operation of nuclear facilities, aircraft navigation or communication systems, air traffic control, direct life support machines , or weapon systems, in which the failure of Java technology could lead directly to death, personal injury, or severe physical or environmental damage.
    Is this marketing gone mad or does Microsoft know something that we don't?

    Is any MS product "intended for use or resale as on-line control equipment in hazardous environments requiring fail-safe performance"? I hope nuclear power plants aren't running windows in their reactor equipment. The network hiccups, the progam can't reach the harddrive and waits while the rods are pulled way too far out. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. Wasn't there a US Navy ship that had to be towed back to port because they were running windows and it blue-screened during a routine test?
  14. NO[ Go to top ]

    Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO
  15. Java kills[ Go to top ]

    what MS meant is Java kills MS' business, monopoly and profits.
  16. Here's an interesting variant that is for IE.
    See http://www.microsoft.com/msdownload/ieplatform/ie/license.txt
    Note the last sentence

    "Note on Java Support. The OS Components may contain support for programs written in Java. Java technology is not fault tolerant and is not designed, manufactured, or intended for use or resale as on-line control equipment in
    hazardous environments requiring fail-safe performance, such as in the operation of nuclear facilities, aircraft navigation or communication systems, air traffic control, direct life support machines, or weapons systems, in which the failure of Java technology could lead directly to death, personal injury, or severe physical or environmental damage. Sun Microsystems, Inc. has contractually obligated Microsoft to make this disclaimer."
  17. yeah yeah i will also try this may be i will become thin again
    this is really useless nonsense they have published about java
  18. I'd better tell them to switch off that reactor now!

    And rewrite it using RoR in 2 days so that they can switch it on again.
  19. Just some more words ...[ Go to top ]

    I´ve found some more words about this topic
    "Sun Microsystems, Inc. has
    contractually obligated Microsoft to make this disclaimer."

    Why Sun Microsystems make this?

    http://www.microsoft.com/msdownload/ieplatform/ie/license.txt
  20. noted[ Go to top ]

    the next time i'm called on to write systems for nuclear facilities, aircraft navigation or communication systems, air traffic control, direct life support machines, or weapon systems, i'll look more into this.

    until then, java has been doing just fine in systems that process credit card transactions, publish medical certification exam results to the web, discover mistakes in hotel and airline rate data, prowl the web and scoop up competitive rate info, and help people buy and sell really big buildings.
  21. Just legal jibberish. All it says is that, "if the roof crashes down in your head, don't sue us!".

    I'de much rather use Java for life critical applications than .NET or C++.
  22. Switch to .NET[ Go to top ]

    Hey,
    All of you who are using java in nuclear facilities, aircraft navigation or communication systems, air traffic control, direct life support machines, or weapon systems, please switch to .NET,after all Bill is saying.And what about rest of the applications ? Please switch from .NET to Java.Is it OK now Mr. Gates ?
  23. Bread is much more dangerous[ Go to top ]

    Recent research shows that 100% of killers and killed people got bread in the last 48 hours before. So, is 100% sure bread can kill you or can made you kill somebody.
  24. Well that explains alot[ Go to top ]

    WOW...Being a new comer into the JAVA arena, I find this quite shocking! Having written many shop floor applications using other "safer" platforms from IBM, I can't help but think of how many lifes are now at risk, due to the latest release of our WAREHOUSE managment software. Should WARNING labels be mandatiry? Do you think a disclaimer in the code such as this would prevent legal proceedings: "While this software is deemed safe and non-lethal, it may at times fail to perform as expected. Every precaution available to prevent loss of life and limb should be employed"
  25. Basically it just says that JVM is not realtime or fail-safe in explicit wording to protect themselves from lawsuits. No system with a pausing garbage collection can be made real-time and Java doesn't have fail-safe constructions in the language and will terminate for instance if it runs out of memory.
  26. Oh well[ Go to top ]

    Well but before Java GC you have a pre-epmtive thread scheduler coming from MS OS or a Linux OS or whatever the OS you are runing on. Those will really prevent you from real time. So GC not the first to blame here niether is JVM.

    Really no need to blame anyone, that is just a fact of life with theese OSes, as a matter of fact it is a feature. The only strange thing that MS had to put that on the license about java and skipped its own OS :-)
  27. It's a differnt thing whether MS should comment on Java in it's license or not, but it's true that Java can not be used in such situations as results are unpredictable.
    For the same, Sun has brought Real time java, in this case also, sun says by real time it means that results are predictable and not extremly fast.
  28. Maybe MS will kill you[ Go to top ]

    We all know that MS wishes that Java programmers die a slow, painful death!
  29. For all those J-Illitrates & MS-Buffs

    MARS TWIn ROVERS programs were coded in so called "JAVA". The place were no can even imagine how it looks and feels are been services by jvm's running in mars for pictures and scientific experiments.

    LOL: Any takers..... Caption- Java Tiger- "Our JVM's makes off-roads driving even in mars possible"
  30. You don't say[ Go to top ]

    er.... this is sooooooooooo old...

    When I started using Java in 1996 one of the first things I did was read Sun's long-winded license agreement. There at the end was the disclaimer about using Java in mission critical apps such as nuclear medical and ATC.

    That was TEN years ago. Has someone only just noticed???!
  31. That's really ridiculous.