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News: Oracle, try not being evil.

  1. Oracle, try not being evil. (8 messages)

    Looks like Oracle might not own the trademark to Hudson after all: The Register says that Oracle filed for the trademark (in the EU, at least) after discussion started about a move to github.

    ...a well-placed former Sun Microsystems employee has contacted The Regto say that Sun took an "explicit decision" not to apply for a trademark on the name Hudson. A search of the US Patent and Trademark Office's website throws up 623 trademarks for Hudson for many things, but not for the project Oracle owns.

    Oracle's making a customer grab here (from "Oracle claims trademark on Hudson open source"):

    These are customers that Oracles wants. It wants to tie them to its own developer and tools roadmap. It's not clear what plans Oracle has for Hudson, but there's every possibility Oracle would like to have Hudson integrated through Kenai with its own Java IDE and tools JDeveloper.

    There's nothing wrong with wanting to expand markets and customer bases. There is something wrong with retroactively declaring ownership of something just because it represents an opportunity.

    The wrong is magnified when it's perpetrated against Kohsuke Kawaguchi, who through all this has been very respectful, quiet, honorable. In private conversation, he hasn't asserted whether Oracle owns the patent or not, even though if anyone owns the trademark, it should be him.

    However, he might not: Oracle might be able to claim that Hudson was a formal part of Kohsuke's work product (when it was first written, of course.) If he was employed for the purpose of writing a build system, then it would be Sun's trademark, and therefore Oracle's.

    That said, it's not clear if that's the case, and nobody at Oracle has said anything conclusive that I've been able to find. (Except Mr. Farrell, but I am discounting his statements because they seem to be factually in error, or at the very least built on assumption and would be accurate by accident.)

    Now we get to wait and see further. Yesterday, Mr. Kawaguchi announced that there would be news on Hudson after the weekend; did Oracle file the trademark in the EU in the interim? If so, the news would be the standard "Oracle is evil, and they're likely to get what they want by fiat."

    Let's hope not. 

    The worst thing is that there's no real recourse outside of either a schism in the Hudson community or total surrender. OpenOffice and Solaris have already been sacrificed with the former strategy; let's hope Hudson isn't added to that list.

    Threaded Messages (8)

  2. The sky isn't falling[ Go to top ]

    I don't understand all this hype and hyperbole. As Lao Tzu said "the only thing constant is change". Or put it another way "everything is impermanent" and everything eventually changes/dies. Bruce lee would say "be like water."

  3. The sky isn't falling[ Go to top ]

    I don't understand all this hype and hyperbole. As Lao Tzu said "the only thing constant is change". Or put it another way "everything is impermanent" and everything eventually changes/dies. Bruce lee would say "be like water."

    First they came for the communists. But I was not a communist...

  4. The sky isn't falling[ Go to top ]

    I don't understand all this hype and hyperbole. As Lao Tzu said "the only thing constant is change". Or put it another way "everything is impermanent" and everything eventually changes/dies. Bruce lee would say "be like water."

    First they came for the communists. But I was not a communist...

    When they start killing developers I'll back you on it. So far I don't see anyone getting shot by a firing line. I could be wrong, but Oracle isn't putting an iron chain on our legs and forcing us to be slaves. Right now I'm using Java, C#, SQL and no oracle thought police is standing over my shoulders.

  5. The sky isn't falling[ Go to top ]

    When they start killing developers I'll back you on it. So far I don't see anyone getting shot by a firing line. I could be wrong, but Oracle isn't putting an iron chain on our legs and forcing us to be slaves. Right now I'm using Java, C#, SQL and no oracle thought police is standing over my shoulders.

    hah! This was a beautiful response. You're probably right - it's a bit of a storm in a teacup, and I guess I'm contributing. That said, it's behavior that I don't think is right - either say what's really happening, or defend the claim - not this halfway "wait that's ours, because we want it" thing going on.

    Someone has to stand up and say "show us what's real."

  6. The sky isn't falling[ Go to top ]

    When they start killing developers I'll back you on it. So far I don't see anyone getting shot by a firing line. I could be wrong, but Oracle isn't putting an iron chain on our legs and forcing us to be slaves. Right now I'm using Java, C#, SQL and no oracle thought police is standing over my shoulders.

    hah! This was a beautiful response. You're probably right - it's a bit of a storm in a teacup, and I guess I'm contributing. That said, it's behavior that I don't think is right - either say what's really happening, or defend the claim - not this halfway "wait that's ours, because we want it" thing going on.

    Someone has to stand up and say "show us what's real."

    total agree Oracle could be more transparent, but that's true of most businesses. I'm totally guilty of doing the same thing on numerous occassions on theserverside. Since I don't use hudson, I don't have an emmotional attachment. If they did that to something I did use, I'd be shouting pretty loud myself.

  7. The sky isn't falling[ Go to top ]

    I don't understand all this hype and hyperbole. As Lao Tzu said "the only thing constant is change". Or put it another way "everything is impermanent" and everything eventually changes/dies. Bruce lee would say "be like water."

    "Omnia mutantur, nihil interit."

  8. Oracle, try not being evil.[ Go to top ]

    And now we have more information. Kohsuke Kawaguchi said he didn't notice my inquiry (boy, talk about feeling important!) and said:

    My employment contract with Sun says pretty much everything I do while I’m in employment is owned by Sun, and there’s the California law that said certain portions (the work you’ve done on your time on your own equipments and etc) would belong to employees regardless of what the employment contract says.

    So in terms of copyright to the code, there’s definitely some portions that I own, and there’s definitely some portions that Sun owns.

    IANAL, so I’m not sure who trademarks belong to, but I’m not surprised if Oracle owns that. Oracle certainly seems to think that way, and I don’t think I have a deep enough pocket to find that out in the court.

    Well, that sounds pretty definitive: if Oracle doesn't have the trademark of the Hudson name, Kohsuke doesn't have the means at his disposal (or resources that he's willing to commit) to challenge it. That means Oracle wins by being willing to fight, at the very least.

    On the other hand, at least we have some clarity. They still say they're working on an arrangement of some kind, so we'll see what happens, but at least one potential dispute is clarified.

  9. Oracle, try not being evil.[ Go to top ]

    If you dont succeed at first, try, try, try again.