It Doesn't Look Good For Google! Android Checkmate?

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News: It Doesn't Look Good For Google! Android Checkmate?

  1. All the juicy details are presented the eweek news article link below.

    I am personally starting to think that Google should just pay up, and let Android and Java roll on, especially in light of the fact that they were considering using C# and Microsoft CLR VM as alternatives.  Not to make light of a serious situation, it could just be viewed as their greatest contribution to the Java platform.

    My question is, why the heck won't these tech execs listen to their chief engineers and their recommendations?  It can end up saving a lot pain, effort, and money in the long run if they just take 10 seconds to think and just do the right thing.

    Click here for Eweek news link.

    http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application-Development/Google-Emails-Come-Back-to-Bite-in-Java-Patent-Case-over-Android-193035/?kc=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+RSS%2Ftech+%28eWEEK+Technology+News%29

    Threaded Messages (39)

  2. A positive way forward..[ Go to top ]

    There is still a lot of room for both Google and Oracle to do something productive, responsible and good for the Java community overall. They could work together to define the next-generation mobile platform for Java and have Android adopt that platform.

    It's a shame more people in the Java community are not calling for that to happen promptly. Instead, what I see are way to many people too ready to quickly take sides instead of seeing both these organizations for what they really are -- large, self-serving organizations that will only care about developer wellbeing when they are duely held accountable for their actions...

  3. What's good for me?[ Go to top ]

    In the interest of being self-serving (just like Google and Oracle) - Android is good for me as a java developer.  I can develop on any platform I like and was able to more easily leverage my experience with a familiar language and IDE.  The Android platform is far superior and better enables me to monetize my skills than the J2ME platform that Oracle inherited.

    I really don't care whether Larry is the devil or not, I don't care if Google really "does no evil" - Android has been good for me and because of that I'm rooting for Google to succeed.

  4. What's good for me?[ Go to top ]

    I would argue that you would be even better off if something that looks a lot like the Android API runs on a much wider variety of phones instead of being bound to Google :-).

  5. I totally agree with Reza Rahman, it looks more like small children than serious adults. .NET is paying Oracle for all the copy & paste from Java. Google should have thought about this before.

    A serious compromise from both would be great deal for the Java community and the both of the companies.

    Lawsuits doesn't help the software community

  6. The best thing[ Go to top ]

    would be for the two of them to team up. hopefully saner heads will prevail and something beneficial for both can be worked out.

  7. Oracle don't play open source[ Go to top ]

    Oracle don't know what the words 'community' and 'open source' are. They've screwed up all the open source projects they touched. The only way something works for Oracle is when they have total control of the whole thing.

    I'd prefer to see Android move away from Java and keep things open source.

  8. Oracle don't play open source[ Go to top ]

    From working one-on-one with many people in Oracle (including "native" Oracle engineers and engineers from acquired companies like Sun, BEA, Tangosol and TopLink/Object People) I think such viewpoints are very far from fair/balanced.

    Most engineers from Oracle are interested in the community and do collborate with other companies quite effectively, particularly in the JCP (indeed in many cases more so than Google). From first hand experince, without Oracles' positive contributions, many good changes in Java EE 5 and Java EE 6 would not have happened. Oracle generally has always been very supportive of open source software as well as standardization where it makes real business sense for them. Examples of this include Eclipse, EclipseLink, GlassFish and NetBeans. The fact that Oracle is not is not an open source purist I think is a very good thing. Java is a mixed ecosystem; not an open source monoculture - and better off for it. In fact, such attitudes are part of Sun's eventual undoing.

  9. Oracle don't play open source[ Go to top ]

    Anyone know what Gosling is doing at Google?

    Was he hired to defend Android?

  10. Oracle don't play open source[ Go to top ]

    As far as I know, Gosling has nothing to do with Android or the lawsuit in particular.

  11. Oracle don't play open source[ Go to top ]

    As far as I know, Gosling has nothing to do with Android or the lawsuit in particular.

    So have we(worked closely with oracle). they have messed up almost everything they touch. i wouldnt be surprized if they start charging $$ for jdk download. they will find a way to do that. oracle means money and nothgn else.

    i have recently worked with a piece of bad software called oracle rac 11G. Oh man, we have spent more money on opatching it and bug fixing it than the whole project itelf. its typcial junk software from oracle. now we pay $300 per hour per person for a dozen of idiots from oracle to sit and "tune" our database. Its like buy printer for free and pay for ink for years to come.

     

    And now coming to the point of the thread - i think if this "battle" of the giants goes down south, then the whole community is goign to looose. i think more loss for oracle than google. google can switch the language to any other language pretty fast and deploy it on next generation of phones. but oracle will not find such a huge base of android developers using java.

    why cant oracle just buy RIM (blackberry ) and satify its failure of not gettting the piece of mobile pie. better yet concentrate on fixing the failures of "fusion" - biggest and costliest failure in the history of tech giants after MSFT vista.

  12. Oracle don't play open source[ Go to top ]

    Oracle's mobile strategy has little or nothing to do with the lawsuit. Even if the iPhone adopted and licensed Java tomorrow, the lawsuit against Google would have still happened.

  13. where is Gosling?[ Go to top ]

    I think he is just a mentor at google..

    Gosling plans to file a case against ex employer for code theft, and prove that patents/code were stolen by him from an outside agency, and didn't belong to Sun. He was mentally  tortured throughout his career at sun..

  14. please delete this post[ Go to top ]

    please delete this post. I am not RMS

  15. Oracle don't play open source[ Go to top ]

    From working one-on-one with many people in Oracle (including "native" Oracle engineers and engineers from acquired companies like Sun, BEA, Tangosol and TopLink/Object People) I think such viewpoints are very far from fair/balanced.

    Most engineers from Oracle are interested in the community and do collborate with other companies quite effectively, particularly in the JCP (indeed in many cases more so than Google). From first hand experince, without Oracles' positive contributions, many good changes in Java EE 5 and Java EE 6 would not have happened. Oracle generally has always been very supportive of open source software as well as standardization where it makes real business sense for them. Examples of this include Eclipse, EclipseLink, GlassFish and NetBeans. The fact that Oracle is not is not an open source purist I think is a very good thing. Java is a mixed ecosystem; not an open source monoculture - and better off for it. In fact, such attitudes are part of Sun's eventual undoing.

    So have we(worked closely with oracle). they have messed up almost everything they touch. i wouldnt be surprized if they start charging $$ for jdk download. they will find a way to do that. oracle means money and nothgn else.

    i have recently worked with a piece of bad software called oracle rac 11G. Oh man, we have spent more money on opatching it and bug fixing it than the whole project itelf. its typcial junk software from oracle. now we pay $300 per hour per person for a dozen of idiots from oracle to sit and "tune" our database. Its like buy printer for free and pay for ink for years to come.

     

    And now coming to the point of the thread - i think if this "battle" of the giants goes down south, then the whole community is goign to looose. i think more loss for oracle than google. google can switch the language to any other language pretty fast and deploy it on next generation of phones. but oracle will not find such a huge base of android developers using java.

    why cant oracle just buy RIM (blackberry ) and satify its failure of not gettting the piece of mobile pie. better yet concentrate on fixing the failures of "fusion" - biggest and costliest failure in the history of tech giants after MSFT vista.

     

  16. Oracle don't play open source[ Go to top ]

    Sorry, but some experience with a few random low-level technicians or sales people on random Oracle lines of business isn't really all that pertinent. Try speaking to Steve Harris, Adam Messinger, Ted Farrell, Mark Reinhold, Arun Gupta, Mike Keith, Doug Clark, Debu Panda or even Cameron Purdy (on this thread) about Oracle's open source or standardization strategy. They will tell you that statements like the JDK will not continue to be free and open source is complete and utter nonsense.

    Aren't we supposed to be educated professionals? How about a bit more rational discussion about serious matters and less silliness?

  17. Oracle don't play[ Go to top ]

    Oracle don't know what the words 'community' and 'open source' are. They've screwed up all the open source projects they touched.

    OpenJDK?

    EclipseLink?

    Come on .. be realistic at least. There's plenty of legitimate complaints you can voice; no need to say silly things. ;-)

    I'd prefer to see Android move away from Java and keep things open source.

    Android is proprietary. Google releases portions of an older version of Android only when it's already too late for phone companies to pick it up and be competitive. That's why all the phone companies using Android "choose" to pay for it, so they can get the whole thing and get it six months earlier.

    Compare that to OpenJDK, which is developed in the open.

    Now, to be fair, I'm not claiming any one of these giant corporations is either "good" or "bad"; they are companies, and they often make decisions for business reasons. I'm just suggesting that you stop swallowing the google froth without thinking first. And when you start to think, you'll probably stop swallowing.

    Peace,

    Cameron.

  18. Oracle don't play[ Go to top ]

    I think there is a lot of food for thought here for anyone that cares to be really informed. For example, here is a Wired.com article on Android: http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/10/is-android-open/.

  19. Oracle don't play[ Go to top ]

    I were very unhappy in choosing that title. 

    I also were unfair (and wrong) in saying that "They've screwed up all the open source projects they touched", since they do contribute to open source projects. What I was trying to say is that projects like EclipseLink, Hudson, OpenOffice just became 'open' after leaving the Oracle umbrella. 

    I'm not saying that "open" is better than "close" or Google is better than Oracle. I just didn't like the way Oracle had treated the now LibreOffice and Jenkin communities in the past and call JCP an open process when it's not. And to be honest, I don't even think it has to be an open process (just don't try to make it looks like).

    Oracle don't know what the words 'community' and 'open source' are. They've screwed up all the open source projects they touched.

    OpenJDK?

    EclipseLink?

    Come on .. be realistic at least. There's plenty of legitimate complaints you can voice; no need to say silly things. ;-)

    I'd prefer to see Android move away from Java and keep things open source.

    Android is proprietary. Google releases portions of an older version of Android only when it's already too late for phone companies to pick it up and be competitive. That's why all the phone companies using Android "choose" to pay for it, so they can get the whole thing and get it six months earlier.

    Compare that to OpenJDK, which is developed in the open.

    Good point. 

    I'm just not comfortable in downloading the OpenJDK and embedded it in my own device and distribute it [royalty free] (not without the advice of 'very' a good lawyer :) )

    Another good point: you're right, Android is not developed on the open. But I can download its last source code and embedded it in my own device and distribute it [royalty free]. Although I can't call it "Android" (what doesn't matter in my case).

    So, at the end of the day, I'll choose the platform that won't empty my pockets :)

    Now, to be fair, I'm not claiming any one of these giant corporations is either "good" or "bad"; they are companies, and they often make decisions for business reasons. I'm just suggesting that you stop swallowing the google froth without thinking first. And when you start to think, you'll probably stop swallowing.

    Peace,

    Cameron.

    I come in peace :)

  20. Might not be that bad after all![ Go to top ]

    If, as part of the settelment, Oracle can get Google to join OpenJDK then it might not be that bad after all.

  21. Might not be that bad after all![ Go to top ]

    If, as part of the settelment, Oracle can get Google to join OpenJDK then it might not be that bad after all.

    Or, even better (for the sake of both mobile and Java communities),

    - force Google to make the Android platform more open (i.e. align with Oracle's OpenJDK approach).

    - push for an Android foundation (aka Eclipse) wherein Oracle, Google can become strategic members.

     

  22. Hi,[ Go to top ]

    Hello,

    This interesting article addresses some of the key issues regarding . A careful reading of this material could make a big difference in how you think about .

     

    Most of this information comes straight from the  pros. Careful reading to the end virtually guarantees that you'll know what they know.

    Anyone come up with a REAL alternative yet? pass4sure 1z0-042 What I'm missing is how with Windows mobile you had the home screen which showed your tasks, emails and schedule. I want that with G1 but apparently google is thinking cloud computing. LOL. So like when you're in a dead zone, you're hosed. pass4sure COG-112 I'm thinking some sort of tasks/todo list app that has a home screen widget and syncs with outlook so I can get a windows gadget to show my todo/schedule on the desktop and have it synced with my phone. pass4sure PMI-002 I've missed this functionality and mobile office since going from Windows mobile to android.  

    Is there really any information about  that is nonessential? We all see things from different angles, so something relatively insignificant to one may be crucial to another.

  23. If, as part of the settelment, Oracle can get Google to join OpenJDK then it might not be that bad after all.

    The Sun vs Microsoft suit seems to share some similarities with the Oracle vs Google court case - and to be honest, if I were Google, I wouldn't be interested in joining anything with anybody suing me for 2.6 billion dollars.

    The end result here would likely be that Google would just build, use, and distribute its own mobile, desktop, and web software development tech stack (complete with programming language, VM, and tools) rather than continue to assume its okay to mooch off semi open tech owned/controlled by other companies.  The latter is what Microsoft did when they were forced to develop their .Net platform strategy after they ended up paying hundreds of millions to Sun after it was clear that they would not be allowed to fragment Java to their advantage.

    It's really an amazing, confusing mess that Google has created for itself, not to mention all those stakeholders involved with the Android platform in one way or another - and it seems that Oracle has a sure chance to checkmate Google for a tidy sum of cash, and maybe kind, for which I would see it hard for them to just stop the current court case in favor of giving Google and Android some reprieve.  After all, Android is not an Oracle product (Though it can be, indirectly, if Google cooperates. :-)).

    In other words, if you were sure of winning a cool 2.6 billion dollar lawsuit court case, would you just cold turkey call it off because it may result in a messy state of affairs for your adversary's customers, or stakeholders?

    As mentioned earlier, Google might end up paying Oracle some agreed amount for the patent infringements (as is being highlighted in those Google email transcripts), and acquiring and complying with the necessary Oracle Java licensing terms. Google can then either continue to utilize Java tech in Android or gradually phase out its use of Java tech in favor of its own implemented NoJava mobile tech platform (Just like what Apple, Microsoft, and HP do today). The latter approach would make perfect sense for why they decided to hire James Gosling (i.e. to help architect the NoJava Android VM and programming language.)

    Android is an important and impressive platform, and Google needs to resolve this Oracle suit issue ASAP for the good of all Android stakeholders. It just doesn't look good.

  24. Oracle is a greedy company[ Go to top ]

    Oracle wants to extract its pound of flesh from Java. Java is not safe under Oracle.

    It does not look as rosy as this for Oracle. I wish Oracle loses.

    Refer:

    http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_Dtqe1e0tXg

    In the meanwhile, Oracle has deleted Sun CEO Jonathan Schwartz's blog where he says:

     

    I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of others from Sun in offering my heartfelt congratulations to Google on the announcement of their new Java/Linux platform, Android.  Congratulations!

     

    I’d also like Sun to be the first platform software company to commit to a complete developer environment around the platform, as we throw Sun’s NetBeans developer platform for mobile devices behind the effort. We’ve obviously done a ton of work to support developers on all Java based platforms, and were pleased to add Google’s Android to the list.

     

    And needless to say, Google and the Open Handset Alliance just strapped another set of rockets to the community’s momentum – and to the vision defining opportunity across our (and other) planets.

     

    Today is an incredible day for the open source community, and a massive endorsement of two of the industry’s most prolific free software communities, Java and Linux.

     

  25. mockery of GPL by google.[ Go to top ]

    few years back- it was just microsoft vs linux for PC hardware. google was a just one search web site.

     GPL should clearly applicable to hardware as well which should be based on time also. if linux code was taken, all handset manufacturers should have exposed the hardware design to open source. And ideally- hardware should not be sold. Each person can compile and buld hardware for free from home!

    "If hardware was sold which uses GPL - the profit made from software and hardware should be proven to be ZERO." That is selling price=cost price. GPL=Zero cost for software (and zero profit for hardware)!!

     

    This is why MIT's $100 laptop, India's(so called- false promised) $35 tablet,  are so essential. Any profit made on software - goes back to taxpayers!

     

    What could happen next is:

    Linux developers  already seems to say0 android is theirs..  http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/3/18/googles-android-violates-linux-gpl/  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/03/android_driver_code_deleted_from_linux_kernel/  (Stallman is oenly against google Chrome) . If Google violated some 100 patents of java, they could have violated 10,000 code copyrights inside linux.

    if oracle can file $5 billion lawsuit, redhat and other companies(novell, Bedrock....) can file combined  $100 billion lawsuit against google after oracle's case is over- and justifiably- google will have to pay back the linux community. Then linux community will not have that non-profit look.

     

  26. Ban Oracle, untrustworthy[ Go to top ]

    Its better for oracle to settle the agreement. We will boycott oracle products if the settlements doesn't reach quickly. Oracle seems to be untrustworthy.

  27. Ban Oracle, untrustworthy[ Go to top ]

    Its better for oracle to settle the agreement. We will boycott oracle products if the settlements doesn't reach quickly. Oracle seems to be untrustworthy.

    I think "most" people will agree it's best if the parties come to an agreement. In terms of trust, placing faith is some large multi-national corporation is foolish. Trust isn't some static thing, it takes work to build and maintain trust. Just about every company on earth has faultered, so I fail to see how that's specific to Oracle. It's fine to hate oracle if that's your position, but irrational statements really don't get things done.

  28. Ban Oracle, untrustworthy[ Go to top ]

    Well said. I think predictions that Google will opt for something other than Java is equally irrational. Large parts of Google's portfolio is built on Java for solid technical and business reasons. If companies like IBM can effectively work via the JCP with Oracle so certainly can Google. Google has it's faults, but it is certainly not as averse to healthy competetion as Microsoft is/was - particularly when it comes to things outside of it's core search business.

    Paying a fine for Adroid infringment and collaboration on mobile Java is certainly not two mutually exclusive outcomes and is probably the most reasonable one going forward. It seems to me that has been what Oracle has sought all along, as did Sun.

  29. Ban Oracle, untrustworthy[ Go to top ]

    I think this recent talk by Steve Harris is very appropriate here since Oracles' motivations rather than the basic legality of Java use in Andriod seems to be more important at least in some people's minds: http://www.java-tv.com/2011/08/01/open-source-java-and-oracle/. The talk ends with a call for developers to actively engage in advancing Java instead of taking the irrational for granted.

  30. Ban Oracle, untrustworthy[ Go to top ]

    Google/Redhat are kept out of OpenJDK governing body so that no bad patches are received from them.

    The good patches are normally scrapped from OpenJDK, and put into only jrockit JDK without anybody's knowledge. This way - Jboss will run on slow, buggy OpenJDK while oracle middleware will run on super rich jrockit JDK.

     

    -Elli

  31. Maybe I missed something somewhere, but can someone tell me where to find an article or information on Oracle's Smartphone or Tablet device strategy with Java going foward?

    Oracle is now a hardware company isn't it? And most of the popular computer hardware manufacturers I am aware of are coming out with at least one tablet device to add to their computer hardware offerings.

    I've seen occasions where Mr. Larry Ellison expressed his wish to see JavaFX as the defacto UI tech being used on mobile devices (just to paraphrase him).

    I remember during the good old Sun J2ME days, mobile device manufacturers were all lining up to deal with Sun and its MIDP strategy. Is that still the case with Oracle, and J2ME/MIDP today?

    Can it be logical to assume that Android with its off the charts adoption rate figures by mobile and tablet device manufacturers (along with its massive Java developer mind share), that Oracle's J2ME/MIDP is destined for the dumps.

    Let's break this down:

    (a) For the future mobile devices, the platforms of choice are shaping up to be iOS, Android, Windows mobile, Web OS, and Maybe Blackberry OS. I see no J2ME/MIDP here.

    (b) For current embedded systems, J2ME/MIDP may have a strong deployment base here, but I think Android is looking like a good future replacement here too for the device manufacturers.

    On the mobile and possible embedded systems front, the adoption rate side of things seems to be in favour of Android when comared with JavaFX, and J2ME/MIDP.

    With Android likely to be eroding the revenue earnings base from J2ME/MIDP for Oracle, what else is the company left to do but force Google to make up the shortfall with some required taxes from Android.

    If the mobile device OEMs are paying for their right to leverage the latest Android platform versions from Google, Oracle has gotta get some a dat, even if Google doesn't want to share.

    After all, how would it look for the owners of Java to be making less money from Java on mobile devices, than another company utilizing Java tech in a similar OEM business model?  That'd be like when IBM was kicking Sun's butt with Websphere, even though Sun was the home of J2EE, and had it's own J2EE SunOne app server.

    So, unless someone here can enlighten me on what's Oracle's smartphone, and tablet device strategy going forward, I'd be inclined to think their strategy is Android. :)

  32. I'm not sure what you are looking for exactly?

    The plans to continue to develop Java ME and Java FX remain unchanged (take a look at the JavaOne 2011 agenda). That might of course change as an outcome of the lawsuit. Sun sought a co-development effort with Google for Andriod. One can assume Oracle would be open to the same. What that co-development means is anyones' guess. The likely outcome would be an evolution of Java ME and perhaps Java FX to meet Andriod somewhere halfway (the basic API concepts are not really all that different - the implementation is).

    Sun had some kind of hardware based mobile strategy with SavaJe. I doubt that's a path Oracle would ever follow since they are really still a software company at heart.

    Java ME is supported on BlackBerry, Palm and Windows Mobile/CE. It's really the iPhone and Andriod that don't support it.

  33. I'm not sure what you are looking for exactly?

    The plans to continue to develop Java ME and Java FX remain unchanged (take a look at the JavaOne 2011 agenda). That might of course change as an outcome of the lawsuit. Sun sought a co-development effort with Google for Andriod. One can assume Oracle would be open to the same. What that co-development means is anyones' guess. The likely outcome would be an evolution of Java ME and perhaps Java FX to meet Andriod somewhere halfway (the basic API concepts are not really all that different - the implementation is).

    Sun had some kind of hardware based mobile strategy with SavaJe. I doubt that's a path Oracle would ever follow since they are really still a software company at heart.

    Java ME is supported on BlackBerry, Palm and Windows Mobile/CE. It's really the iPhone and Andriod that don't support it.

    So, in short you're saying there is no clear cut, concrete mobile or tablet strategy in place for Oracle when compared with the likes of Apple, Google, HP, Microsft, etc?

    Sun had some kind of hardware based mobile strategy with SavaJe. I doubt that's a path Oracle would ever follow since they are really still a software company at heart.

    Last I heard from Mr. Ellison was that with their acquisition of Sun, Oracle is now a complete systems company (i.e. remember the slogan - Oracle | Hardware and Software, Engineered to Work Together).

    Java ME is supported on BlackBerry, Palm and Windows Mobile/CE. It's really the iPhone and Andriod that don't support it.

    We know what the devices support, but what are the developers primarily required to support when implementing solutions on either of those devices?

    1) Java ME/Blackberry is not doing so well market share wise.

    2) Palm is now HP property, and WebOS developers are required to use JavaScript, or C/C++. I don't think Java is a WebOS strategy going forward here (Not to mention Windows mobile).

    It looks like if a big software/systems company can afford to do mobile and tablet on their own steam, then that's the strategy being pursued.  I think Apple started this trend.

    Google's not doing hardware, but their Anroid platform is likely to run on the vast majority of non Apple,  and HP mobile, or tablet devices. Basically, they're looking to do what windows did with PCs, but this time on mobile and tablet devices.

    From where I sit, Google realizes that Android is likely to be the Windows OS for mobile, and tablet devices for which Oracle and Java ME could be also, but they are still stuck at the JavaOne 2011 agenda stage.

    Until the judge calls it in favour of Oracle, Google will continue to say that they are not infringing on Java tech. Nobody who's doing smartphones and tablets is sharing really, especially seeing where Apple's iOS strategy brought them to a point where they have more money than the US government. :-)  Product lock in, differentiation, and developer mind share is the strategy here.

    Developers are doing Android and iOS in far more numbers than JavaFX, and Java ME, and the device manufacturers know this. So if you don't have your own mobile, and tablet runtime and developer platform, and you're a device manufacturer, the clear choice is Android, with the exception of Nokia and Windows Mobile.

    I'm thinking that if the Android lawsuit (or Oracle mobile and tablet strategy) doesn't work out for Oracle, my best advice to Oracle would be for them to buy RIM, and then they'd be instantly in the mobile and tablet game right up there with Apple and Google. They can even do this right now, come to think of it.

    Unless they get Android on their side with minimal blood shed and developer and manufacturer fallout, they may just end up ceding more control and market share over to the Apple iOS, and Windows Mobile side for developers and device manufacturers.

  34. Java ME was never as high of a priority for Sun or anyone significant in the JCP as Java SE and Java EE are. That's one of the major underlying reasons for developer API fragmentation in the mobile space. In fact, Google may have made a very high risk, large investment in mobile Java, even compared with Sun in recent years (one that I don't really see solid reasoning for myself).In a co-development scenario, Google would have been the significant contributor - much like IBM was for early Java EE. It's not clear that's changed with Oracle. The lawsuit would indicate that it has and that could certainly be a good thing for Java in the long run (or it may simply be that Oracle has more of a spine than Sun).

    Since Oracle is doing quite well with it's existing portfolio, I personally don't see a good reason to enter the mobile space really, but a BalckBerry aquisition certainly could make some sense...

    Here is the latest, most reliable smart phone market share data: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/consumer/android-leads-u-s-in-smartphone-market-share-and-data-usage/. Adroid has a lead, but not really much of one in a market that seems to be more volatile than women's fashion or pop music...

  35. Java ME was never as high of a priority for Sun or anyone significant in the JCP as Java SE and Java EE are. That's one of the major underlying reasons for developer API fragmentation in the mobile space. In fact, Google may have made a very high risk, large investment in mobile Java, even compared with Sun in recent years (one that I don't really see solid reasoning for myself).In a co-development scenario, Google would have been the significant contributor - much like IBM was for early Java EE. It's not clear that's changed with Oracle. The lawsuit would indicate that it has and that could certainly be a good thing for Java in the long run (or it may simply be that Oracle has more of a spine than Sun).

    If nobody on the JCP couldn't figure out how to do Java ME the right way on mobile devices, or even cared to put some effort into it, why would Google partner with these people when it knows how to do it already and do it well I might add?

    I wouldn't worry too much about the fragmentation aspect of stuff, that will get taken care of over time. The important point is that they made a bold step, actually did something to get Java firmly positioned as a leading tech in the mobile and tablet space, and it's paying off for them.  In business, you can't spend too much time in the planning stages to make the perfect product. You actually have to just do something eventually, or you'll get left behind.  Just make sure each product version release takes care of the previous issues in the last one.

    Since Oracle is doing quite well with it's existing portfolio, I personally don't see a good reason to enter the mobile space really, but a BalckBerry aquisition certainly could make some sense...

    If I were Oracle, and I could strap on a computer to every human being on this planet via offering mobile and tablet devices, I would.  Don't take it for granted that some of these mobile, and tablet device products can become gateway strategies in offering your customers other solutions/products. How does an Oracle Exadata Tablet Database Machine sound to you? :-)

    Also, Blackberry has this corporatey aura about it, similar to Oracle. So that could make for a nice match.

    Here is the latest, most reliable smart phone market share data: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/consumer/android-leads-u-s-in-smartphone-market-share-and-data-usage/. Adroid has a lead, but not really much of one in a market that seems to be more volatile than women's fashion or pop music...

    Take a look at this article: http://www.businessinsider.com/android-iphone-market-share-2011-4

    I think it better summarizes why Google might not be interested in working with Oracle to do Java on mobile and tablet devices, and also why it's likely that they will maintain that they did not infringe on Java tech patents.

    I can just imagine Google maintaining its innocence throughout the trial, "I did not have relations with Java tech patents..." :-)

  36. Just because Java ME was a lower priority does not necessarily mean there wasn't interest (at least in case of Sun). It simply may have been an issue of a cash-strapped company having to choose where to put it efforts - hence the interest in co-developement with Google that would have avoided what looks to be needless fiasco that is not likely to have a good outcome for anyone.

  37. Just because Java ME was a lower priority does not necessarily mean there wasn't interest (at least in case of Sun). It simply may have been an issue of a cash-strapped company having to choose where to put it efforts - hence the interest in co-developement with Google that would have avoided what looks to be needless fiasco that is not likely to have a good outcome for anyone.

    We'll never really know won't we?

  38. Oracle is a greedy company[ Go to top ]

    I do not think Google infringed on any patents. There are several implementations of Java to the specification. Harmony, Oracle, JRockit, Gcj and so on. So when you use any of these jvms you do not infringe on any patents. A number of organisations like IBM and open source projects have contributed enormously to Java. So Oracle is not justified in claiming ownership of whole of Java.

    If Oracle's revenue from J2ME is dwindling it is not Google's fault. J2ME was written in pre-smartphone days. It is no wonder not relevant these days.

    Organisations have to be careful about using Java. If they happen to be successful, oracle may go after them with patent violation court cases.

    Java's success is due to contribution of open source organisations and Universities. Oracle has broken their trust.  

     

  39. stratergy is simple: sue google, get all cash.

    Clone android code, and distribute it with J2ME for cost(older version of android is OK for oracle use).

  40. Stop software patents![ Go to top ]

    Perhaps the best thin google can do with those millions is to go shopping for US-politicians in order to outlaw software patents, as it is - thank god - still more or less the case in Europe. That way they'd do a BIG service to the IT business of the whole world!