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Messages: 19
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Java SE 6 Update N available for testing
The Java 6 team has made Java SE 6 Update N, the "Consumer JRE," available for testing. This VM is split into components, so that users would download a core VM, and download extra pieces at need. For serverside developers, this means that users might be more willing to use a Java client than they have been.
For example, JavaFX might be considered to be more viable, if it's not 40MB to download and use.
It's important to remember that this is in testing, and that the infrastructure isn't complete yet. Sun is looking for feedback on the JRE, so if you do have issues with it, make sure to let the team know.
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Message #240489
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33 megs?!
Going to the link ... it says jre download is 33 megs?!
Compare to Flex runtime (flash) install client side.
.V
ps: does sun think each of us would include our own JRE w/ each our app that we custom brew? I'd use D if I was to want to ship an app.
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Message #240490
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Re: 33 megs?!
From the FAQ:
Where can I test the Kernel installation mode?
The Kernel installation mode relies on a specific backend infrastructure setup that is still undergoing internal testing. The URL from which a JRE installation in Kernel mode can be initiated will be posted at a later date. Stay tuned or subscribe our live link feed for lastest news & information:Java SE 6 Update N Early Access
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Message #240491
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Re: 33 megs?!
Actually, you should read the FAQ posted as well as look at the presentations that are linked. Comparisons should be done more towards the Adobe/AIR and MS/Silverlight installs.
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Message #240504
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applets and webstart
There are 2 cases:
"applets" like flex/silverlight, in a browser.
and
"webstart" like air and c# winforms click once (.net3 is installed via windows update, easy), as a "pop up" outside a browser.
In which case is this feature going to make Java superior for mass deployment?
.V
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Message #240505
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A new JRE which is not the same on all platforms
The quickstarter part of Consumer JRE is going to be available only on Windows. Which means Java is going to be as slow on other platforms as it is now.
Right now Flash player starts as fast in other platforms as it does in Windows. I'm sure when Moonlight (the Mono implementation of Silverlight for Linux) comes up, it will be faster than Java applets. So Java on non-windows desktops will remain behind.
Note: I'm a long time Java fan and am developing a desktop application using Java.
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Message #240508
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Re: 33 megs?!
The 33MB is for a JAR file, not for the actual JRE installer. Remember that the JRE installer uses pack200 which compresses *far* better than JAR. The final installer size is said to be around 3MB.
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Message #240509
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Re: A new JRE which is not the same on all platforms
Sorry but your comparison of Java and Flash for Linux(other platform I think) is complitely unfair.
Java can start slower, but it don't crash my browser, don't use 100% of my cpu and don't kill my X session from time to time.
How can they even be compared on a cross platform base???
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Message #240510
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Re: 33 megs?!
33 megs is not for jar, but for jre! I look at what my end users would have to download ahead.
It's simple, when I go to link and it says download jre, it says next to it 33 megs.
It would be nice when I go to
javasoft.com (sun) download jre that it says 3 megs for my end users.
.V
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Message #240525
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Re: A new JRE which is not the same on all platforms
Writing this from my Linux Ubuntu desktop, I am appalled (assuming what you are sauing is true).
I am surprised Sun has so blatantly disregarded java's x-platform promise to solely promote one OS over another.
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Message #240536
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Re: 33 megs?!
33 megs is not for jar, but for jre! I look at what my end users would have to download ahead.
It's simple, when I go to link and it says download jre, it says next to it 33 megs.
It would be nice when I go to
javasoft.com (sun) download jre that it says 3 megs for my end users.
.V
You are downloading a binary snapshot - not an official distribution. This is the reason why the size is so big.
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Message #240541
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Re: A new JRE which is not the same on all platforms
Java can start slower, but it don't crash my browser Really? I'm using the latest firefox on windows XP and it crashes my browser all the time. It seems even seems to crash my browser from stupid classpath mistakes the applet developer created. Maybe it's firefox's fault though.
The real lesson here is that applets suck. I love java. But I don't mind flash at all. When I had ubuntu installed, the only sites i visited with flash were youtube and other sites that used flash for ads. What crazy flash websites are you people going to that constantly crash your browser? I can't even remember that ever happening to me once for flash.
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Message #240543
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The JRE will run on all platforms
The quickstarter part of Consumer JRE is going to be available only on Windows. Which means Java is going to be as slow on other platforms as it is now.
Right now Flash player starts as fast in other platforms as it does in Windows. I'm sure when Moonlight (the Mono implementation of Silverlight for Linux) comes up, it will be faster than Java applets. So Java on non-windows desktops will remain behind.
Note: I'm a long time Java fan and am developing a desktop application using Java.
I don't know where you heard this. The update N installed fine on my Ubuntu installation and my experience using it was great, fantastic startup times. The only Windows-specific portion of the release is that the graphics pipeline will now be optimized for DirectX as well as OpenGL. DirectX acceleration wasn't supported (well) until now. OpenGL acceleration has already been delivered in the last couple of Java releases, and improved quite a bit with release 6.
Regards
Patrick
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Message #240544
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Crashes should be reported
Java can start slower, but it don't crash my browser Really? I'm using the latest firefox on windows XP and it crashes my browser all the time. It seems even seems to crash my browser from stupid classpath mistakes the applet developer created.
It would help the Java team if you report these crashes, they simply shouldn't be happening. That's one purpose of this release, to gather feedback and find problems. There are several forums where you can report issues, for example: http://forums.java.net/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=119.
Cheers!
Patrick
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Message #240552
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Re: A new JRE which is not the same on all platforms
If by "as fast on other platforms" you mean OSX. Well yes, if you don't mind it grabbing most of your CPU, and linux, maybe if you don't mind it just working and crashing your browser frequently and not working in any 64 bit environments without a lot of work, then yes.
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Message #240558
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Re: 33 megs?!
You are downloading a binary snapshot - not an official distribution. This is the reason why the size is so big.
I went to the link above. Can you please show me a link where one can download a small jre (lets say for a computer w/ no jre on it) that would let me run a java applet or a webstart?
.V
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Message #240561
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Re: A new JRE which is not the same on all platforms
The quickstarter part of Consumer JRE is going to be available only on Windows. Which means Java is going to be as slow on other platforms as it is now.
Right now Flash player starts as fast in other platforms as it does in Windows. I'm sure when Moonlight (the Mono implementation of Silverlight for Linux) comes up, it will be faster than Java applets. So Java on non-windows desktops will remain behind.
Note: I'm a long time Java fan and am developing a desktop application using Java.
Well lets say it that way, realistically, non windows pc desktop platforms are a limited domain. The mac has its own jvm so no need for a separate install (there is not even a downloadable jre for the mac) and Linux users usually know how to install a jvm or have one preinstalled.
So what is left is windows where the majority of the target audience resides.
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Message #240564
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Re: 33 megs?!
You are downloading a binary snapshot - not an official distribution. This is the reason why the size is so big.
I went to the link above. Can you please show me a link where one can download a small jre (lets say for a computer w/ no jre on it) that would let me run a java applet or a webstart?
.V
You can't. It hasn't been released yet.
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Message #240596
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*NOT* 33 megs
VC,
You're being silly. Just because Sun has not yet put out an installer for the JRE does not mean that users will end up having to download a 33MB JAR file in the final release. Obviously Sun will put out a formal installer once it's ready :)
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Message #240604
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Re: 33 megs?!
someone else said you were being silly, and by golly, I just think you are mistaken ;-).
I've been playing around with this release and after a little navigation getting around which version of 1.6.x gets pulled into the browser, I would have to say that this is a great start! For the first beta release, it's very promising. Applets generally do suck, but I don't think they will once this gets more widely deployed. The start up time (minus the download of applet code which is inevitable, whether it is a pack200 compressed jar or for you Adobe lovers swf files), the initialization and end user experience is absolutely superb. In fact, minus the the network download of the code (applet or jws, it will be cached so no biggy), the draw time between the html rendering in IE and the applet for the end user is nearly imperceptible.
As for whether this would help applets or webstart, it seems to address both. The thing that makes my stomach turn is how far we are pushing browser based technologies to do things that they were never intended to do, Adobe in particular keeps pushing the envelope forward into areas that to me start to get ridiculous. Give me the ability to use RTMP with forward and reverse proxies using secure 2 factor based authentication and I won't keep killing all the FLEX initiatives that are in my line of sight. Wrap KWeb inside a Win App "to leverage existing investments in Ajax and Flex development" ? You have got to be kidding.
I've always lamented the inability to run bytecode inside the Flash VM simply b/c Actionscript just doesn't do it for me. If the Consumer JRE/Project Hamburg/Release N allows myself and my develpment teams to stay in one platform while addressing the start up and deployment headaches, we will have the ability to basically do as much or as little (within the sandbox) as we can on the server. Woo hoo. All we need now are some sexy Flex like apps and the tooling that rivals MS Expression (b/c honestly FlexBuilder on top of eclipse is only a little better than the SWT builder for me, for a real great tool experience, MS Expression suite has it hands down), then we can show our upper level management the prototypes that make their jaws drop as they drink in the visuals without making expensive and often mistaken commitments to technologies that require such long baking times to fulfill the business needs (transactional, secure, real time- really real time *without polling!!!*) that the _PROPRIETARY_ vendor is able to internalize then market whole new platforms such as Apollo/Air.
*big run on sentence maker*
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