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Seam 2.0 has been released

Posted by: norman richards on November 06, 2007 DIGG
Seam 2.0 was released this week. JBoss Seam is a powerful new application framework for building next generation Web 2.0 applications by unifying and integrating technologies such as Asynchronous JavaScript and XML (AJAX), Java Server Faces (JSF), Enterprise Java Beans (EJB3), Java Portlets and Business Process Management (BPM).

The Seam team put together a list of new features in Seam 2. Some of the highlights include:

* The Seam component model now supports web services, including direct support for conversational web services
* Seam components can now be written in Groovy
* New improved EL syntax
* Integration with Quartz, Hibernate Search and JFreeChart
* Support for JSF 1.2, as well as support for non-JSF environments like GWT
* Eclipse IDE support in the next release of JBossTools, including Seam project wizards, EL code completion, a visual JSF editor, hot deployment and test integration

Threaded replies

·  Seam 2.0 has been released by norman richards on Tue Nov 06 14:45:41 EST 2007
  ·  Re: Seam 2.0 has been released by Daoud AbdelMonem Faleh on Tue Nov 06 16:05:03 EST 2007
    ·  Is Seam to Solve Problem? by Naveen Gayar on Thu Nov 08 00:52:03 EST 2007
      ·  Re: Is Seam to Solve Problem? by Thai Dang Vu on Thu Nov 08 07:30:13 EST 2007
      ·  Re: Is Seam to Solve Problem? by Michael Yuan on Thu Nov 08 12:55:35 EST 2007
        ·  Re: Is Seam to Solve Problem? by Henri Karapuu on Sun Nov 11 07:05:39 EST 2007
      ·  Re: Is Seam to Solve Problem? by Delphi's Ghost on Fri Nov 09 23:06:35 EST 2007
  ·  remote EJB supported? by alain hsiung on Tue Nov 06 17:13:09 EST 2007
    ·  Re: remote EJB supported? by Gavin King on Tue Nov 06 19:40:33 EST 2007
      ·  Share J2EE Library by david turing on Wed Nov 07 01:05:34 EST 2007
        ·  Re: Share J2EE Library by Gavin King on Wed Nov 07 12:37:20 EST 2007
      ·  Re: remote EJB supported? by alain hsiung on Sat Nov 17 12:48:09 EST 2007
  ·  Is seam portable? by Julien Martin on Wed Nov 07 04:13:49 EST 2007
    ·  Re: Is seam portable? by Gavin King on Wed Nov 07 12:19:27 EST 2007
      ·  Re: Is seam portable? by Julien Martin on Thu Nov 08 07:53:03 EST 2007
  ·  Seam + Tibco General Interface ? by Richard Sullivan on Wed Nov 07 04:18:51 EST 2007
  ·  Weblogic 10 / EJB3.0 support ? by Joerg Schneider on Wed Nov 07 05:50:36 EST 2007
    ·  Application Server support by Techieexchange Techieexchange on Wed Nov 07 08:06:00 EST 2007
    ·  Oracle AS 10.1.3 support ? by joost de vries on Wed Nov 07 08:29:45 EST 2007
      ·  Re: Oracle AS 10.1.3 support ? by Gavin King on Wed Nov 07 12:26:16 EST 2007
    ·  Re: Weblogic 10 / EJB3.0 support ? by norman richards on Wed Nov 07 12:09:07 EST 2007
      ·  Re: Weblogic 10 / EJB3.0 support ? by Joerg Schneider on Wed Nov 07 13:02:47 EST 2007
    ·  Re: Weblogic 10 / EJB3.0 support ? by Gavin King on Wed Nov 07 12:34:27 EST 2007
      ·  JAP and Hibernate might not be sufficient for WL10 by Joerg Schneider on Wed Nov 07 12:59:56 EST 2007
  ·  Webservice: the other side of the moon by stefano maestri on Wed Nov 07 09:28:31 EST 2007
  ·  Re: Seam 2.0 has been released by Anodos Faeryblood on Wed Nov 07 12:22:55 EST 2007
    ·  Re: Seam 2.0 has been released by Ken Clark on Wed Nov 07 12:58:13 EST 2007
      ·  Seam and Flex by Kyle Burke on Fri Nov 09 16:10:34 EST 2007
        ·  Re: Seam and Flex by Jens Halm on Sat Nov 10 08:58:17 EST 2007
  ·  Seam support on non-JBoss app servers by Michael Yuan on Wed Nov 07 13:14:54 EST 2007
    ·  Re: Seam support on non-JBoss app servers by Joerg Schneider on Wed Nov 07 14:07:21 EST 2007
      ·  Re: Seam support on non-JBoss app servers by Gavin King on Wed Nov 07 15:46:20 EST 2007
    ·  Re: Seam support on non-JBoss app servers by Gavin King on Wed Nov 07 15:43:15 EST 2007
    ·  Re: Seam support on non-JBoss app servers by Pete Muir on Wed Nov 07 18:02:21 EST 2007
  ·  Re: Seam 2.0 has been released by Paul Casal on Wed Nov 07 15:03:01 EST 2007
  ·  Re: Seam 2.0 has been released by Techieexchange Techieexchange on Sun Nov 11 15:05:30 EST 2007
  ·  Much love for Seam! by Sam D on Mon Nov 12 22:48:31 EST 2007
  ·  Seam in portlets with JSF by Paul Anderson on Tue Nov 13 10:26:30 EST 2007
    ·  Re: Seam in portlets with JSF by Sam D on Tue Nov 13 13:52:31 EST 2007
  ·  Support for non-JSF environments by Frank Martinez on Tue Nov 20 12:14:01 EST 2007
  Message #242253 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Seam 2.0 has been released

Posted by: Daoud AbdelMonem Faleh on November 06, 2007 in response to Message #242251
This is a great milestone release that come after more the 6 months of hard work, I know cause all this time I sticked with HEAD.
Congratulations Seam folks and keep on rocking!

  Message #242261 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

remote EJB supported?

Posted by: alain hsiung on November 06, 2007 in response to Message #242251
Does Seam 2.0 support remote EJB? Previous versions required the web components and EJB components to be collocated in order to participate as Seam components.

Does Seam 2.0 support independent J2EE modules deployment? Previous versions required all Seam components to be deployed in one single EAR, which is a serious restriction considering that many projects in an enterprise environment have independent SCM plans.

Cheers
Alain Hsiung
Ideartis

  Message #242265 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: remote EJB supported?

Posted by: Gavin King on November 06, 2007 in response to Message #242261
Does Seam 2.0 support remote EJB? Previous versions required the web components and EJB components to be collocated in order to participate as Seam components.


There is still no support for injection of remote objects via @In, if that is what you mean. However, you can certainly inject remote objects via @EJB, and you can even have a Seam component that supports a remote interface. (In some earlier versions of Seam, a Seam component could not be invoked via RMI, but that is no longer the case.)

I think that covers most usecases - is there anything I'm missing?

By the way, the latest drafts of the Web Beans spec *do* support the idea of defining a contextually-bound remote interface object. So Seam will definitely get this functionality sometime :-)

Does Seam 2.0 support independent J2EE modules deployment?


You can certainly deploy Seam components into different EARs, but if you want them to be able to *interact* with each other, you're going to need to use @EJB, not @In.

There are definitely no "global" contexts that span multiple EARs (and I don't think there should be).

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Share J2EE Library

Posted by: david turing on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242265
You can certainly deploy Seam components into different EARs, but if you want them to be able to *interact* with each other, you're going to need to use @EJB, not @In.

There are definitely no "global" contexts that span multiple EARs (and I don't think there should be).


Gavin, Weblogic 9.2 provide a tiny feature for developers to use syntax below
<library-ref>
<library-name>myLibrary</library-name>
<specification-version>2.0</specification-version>
<implementation-version>81Beta</implementation-version>
</library-ref>
in their deployment descriptor(weblogic.xml) to specify which J2EE library modules they use in their web application.

The "myLibrary" Library should deploy as a single share EAR in weblogic, once, so other web applications need not package them again and again.

It seems be very useful when we are using different collections of modules, eg, hibernate, strut, which has a lot of dependencies with different versions.

  Message #242277 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Is seam portable?

Posted by: Julien Martin on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242251
I am having big problems deploying a seam app onto Geronimo or Glassfish. It does not work or requires patches!!!!!!!!!!
Any comment?
Julien.

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Seam + Tibco General Interface ?

Posted by: Richard Sullivan on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242251
Can anybody tell me if it would make sense to try to use Tibco General Interface with Seam?

Apparently somebody thought that GI and Spring Web Flow was a good enough idea to merit writing an article about it here: http://www.theserverside.com/tt/articles/article.tss?l=AjaxandSpring

Any other ideas on how to build a high-volume site without the usual horrible mix of Javascript hacks pasted into JSP?

Thanks,
Richard

  Message #242286 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Weblogic 10 / EJB3.0 support ?

Posted by: Joerg Schneider on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242251
Hi,

great news indeed and a big progress. Anyhow, working in a professional environment where one can not simply choose any app server but is tight to company strategies, Seam still suffers from missing Weblogic 10 support (using EJB3.0). I understood from variuos other threads that this might be a BEA issue rather than a seam one, but in the end it makes no difference for me. I'm pretty sure if Seam is supported in WL10 using EJB3.0/JPA that will double or triple the Seam downloads immediately.

Thanks.

  Message #242290 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Application Server support

Posted by: Techieexchange Techieexchange on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242286
Hi,

great news indeed and a big progress. Anyhow, working in a professional environment where one can not simply choose any app server but is tight to company strategies, Seam still suffers from missing Weblogic 10 support (using EJB3.0). I understood from variuos other threads that this might be a BEA issue rather than a seam one, but in the end it makes no difference for me. I'm pretty sure if Seam is supported in WL10 using EJB3.0/JPA that will double or triple the Seam downloads immediately.

Thanks.


Many big customers have proprietary license from IBM, BEA etc., which means that they must deploy applications only on their servers. So Seam team should invest sometime on application server support.

Meanwhile, really a best release from Seam team.
Congrats and thanks for their effort.


http://techieexchange.wordpress.com/

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Oracle AS 10.1.3 support ?

Posted by: joost de vries on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242286
Similarly I'm waiting for support for the current Oracle applicationserver (10.1.3).

  Message #242293 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Webservice: the other side of the moon

Posted by: stefano maestri on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242251
First of all congrats, seam is a great product on which I have based a b2b website with 15k paying user (I'm writing an article about) and two open source ws utility (I posted here about Lms and wise ).
Thanks because without seam they wouldn't be possible.


* The Seam component model now supports web services, including direct support for conversational web services


That's great. I think would be great to consider webservice client side too. I think a lot of user would appreciate seamgen would be able to generate ws stubs and a simple jsf client page, because IMHO in a SOA world also the client side of ws is becoming more important day by day.
Wise is a generic ws client based on seam and as said in this article I think its codebase could be used to extend semagen to integrate ws client generation.
If you would discuss about feel free to contact me at name.surname@javalinux.it

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Re: Weblogic 10 / EJB3.0 support ?

Posted by: norman richards on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242286
Most of the core Seam developers are all long-time JBoss users. We've been doing our best support the major appservers, but we rely a lot on community involvement to make that support really mean something. To date, with got a lot of participation from Glassfish users, which is why that app server has the next best level of support. We do get occasional reports from websphere and weblogic users, but the level is significantly lower than for JBoss and Glassfish users. We're doing our best to support every appserver we can, but we need people using those appservers to get more involved.

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Re: Is seam portable?

Posted by: Gavin King on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242277
I am having big problems deploying a seam app onto Geronimo or Glassfish. It does not work or requires patches!!!!!!!!!!
Any comment?
Julien.


It is certainly not true that patches are required to run on GlassFish. The Seam distribution includes example applications that deploy on GlassFish and any other EE5-compliant application server.

If you're having problems, please come to the user forum and describe exactly the problem you're having, so that someone can help you find a solution.

Oh, and if you do, no need for the "!!!!!!!!!!" stuff, thanks.

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Re: Seam 2.0 has been released

Posted by: Anodos Faeryblood on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242251
I'd love to see someone adapt Seam for use in rich clients. It would be cool to write a Swing or JavaFX rich client on top of Seam. With a Swing rich client, one could move some of the parts to the desktop side and save server resources (for example, a lot of the workflow and controller functionality could run on the desktop). Actually, to me, the ideal would be to have a rich client platform with an embedded DB that is automatically synchronized with the back end when an internet connection is available. This would not only allow most of the now server side code to run on the client side (workflow, controller, rules, validation, etc), but would also allow the rich client to transparently run in offline mode. At this point, the only thing the server is doing is merging deltas with the back end, sending deltas out to clients, the occasional conflict resolution, and coordination between clients.

  Message #242308 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Oracle AS 10.1.3 support ?

Posted by: Gavin King on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242291
Similarly I'm waiting for support for the current Oracle applicationserver (10.1.3).


As you probably know, OC4J 11 support is available out of the box, and documented here:

http://docs.jboss.com/seam/2.0.0.GA/reference/en/html/oc4j.html

With respect to OC4J 10, which is not a full EE5 environment, we know that other folks are successfully running Seam on OC4J 10, but without the EJB3 support. It looks to me like it should be possible to even get EJB3 support working on OC4J 10.

I suggest you post in the user forum, where there are more people with experience of the Oracle environment.

By the way, what we are doing for the next release is producing a set of guides showing how to deploy on each of the application servers. The guide for OC4J 11 (linked above) is the first one we did.

Cheers

  Message #242310 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Weblogic 10 / EJB3.0 support ?

Posted by: Gavin King on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242286
Hi,

great news indeed and a big progress. Anyhow, working in a professional environment where one can not simply choose any app server but is tight to company strategies, Seam still suffers from missing Weblogic 10 support (using EJB3.0).


AFAIK, the situation today is that we have tested Seam (minus EJB3) on both WebLogic 9, and the Seam "JPA" and "Hibernate" examples demonstrate this out of the box. However, we did not yet find time to test it on WebLogic 10. We'll prioritize that now, I think it's important.

  Message #242311 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Share J2EE Library

Posted by: Gavin King on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242270
Gavin, Weblogic 9.2 provide a tiny feature for developers to use syntax below
<library-ref>
<library-name>myLibrary</library-name>
<specification-version>2.0</specification-version>
<implementation-version>81Beta</implementation-version>
</library-ref>
in their deployment descriptor(weblogic.xml) to specify which J2EE library modules they use in their web application.

The "myLibrary" Library should deploy as a single share EAR in weblogic, once, so other web applications need not package them again and again.

It seems be very useful when we are using different collections of modules, eg, hibernate, strut, which has a lot of dependencies with different versions.


David, I don't think this would be implementable, since there's no way I could get access to the shared archive to scan it for annotated classes.

  Message #242312 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Seam 2.0 has been released

Posted by: Ken Clark on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242307
This may be crazy, but if we're talking about rich client support: how about Flex2 support?

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JAP and Hibernate might not be sufficient for WL10

Posted by: Joerg Schneider on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242310
Hi Gavin,

you are absolutely right - Seam works fine in WL9 using Hibernate. But actually people are moving towards Weblogic 10 just because of EJB30. My development team is very keen on using it and using hibernate in an EJB30 capable app server somehow sounds strange to everyone. And isn't EJB30 the selling argument for Seam ?
Again, from what I've understood so far is, that it might be an BEA problem (no support for varargs during EJB deployment, or something similar :-) - if this is agisnt the "standard" someone should open a case with BEA.

Thanks,

Joerg

  Message #242315 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Weblogic 10 / EJB3.0 support ?

Posted by: Joerg Schneider on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242304
just let me know how to get involved and I'll give you as much support as I can :-)

  Message #242316 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Seam support on non-JBoss app servers

Posted by: Michael Yuan on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242251
Hi Guys,

Since this question come up so much in every Seam related TSS thread, let me try to explain here ...

First, we try very hard to make Seam as generic as possible -- so it would not require JBoss AS to run. The proof of this effort is that Seam runs on plain Tomcat (using RESOURCE_LOCAL transactions). So, in theory, it should run on all application servers out there. However, since all Seam developers use JBoss AS on a daily basis (we happen to believe that JBoss AS is the best AS out there :)), it is natural that Seam is tested most extensively on JBoss AS. Also, as an open source project, we do not have access to commercial WLS, WAS, ORA licenses, and do not have access to their support. So, our testing on those servers is not very comprehensive. I have personally installed the trial versions of those servers multiple times since they expire all the time. It is extremely time consuming. ;)

So, the testing on commercial app servers is not very good at this moment. If you encounter issues with non-JBoss servers, raising them on the Seam forum is your best bet. Now here is a breakdown of what works and what not (to the best of my knowledge).

* Tomcat 5.5 and 6: Seam applications work out of the box on those servers if you use the RESOURCE_LOCAL transaction (see examples/jpa). You can use EJB3 features if you install JBoss Embeddable on top of Tomcat.

* Glassfish: Glassfish v2 is known to work with Seam (see examples/jee5 for an example). But we strongly recommend you use Hibernate as the JPA provider -- not the default TopLink.

* Oracle: Oracle 10 is known to work with Seam (see examples/jee5 and examples/jpa). Again, choose Hibernate as the JPA provider.

* WebLogic: WebLogic 9.2 and 10 can be made to work with JPA + JTA transaction (see examples/jpa). However, EJB3 on WLS 10 does not yet work. There is a reflection error from the EJB proxy the last time I checked.

* WebSphere: I think the examples/jpa can work against WAS 6.1.0.9. You do need to tweak stuff a lot to make JSF 1.2 and Facelets work on that server. We have not tried WebSphere EJB3. However, anything beyond a simple CRUD app might have problems on WAS. One of the reasons is that the IBM JVM5 has a bug that complains about unknown annotations (the correct way is to ignore unknown annotations as the Sun JVM does). Unless IBM fixes this, you will have problems running Seam on WAS.

So, that's it. If any of you can help us testing this stuff, please let us know! :)

cheers
Michael
http://www.michaelyuan.com/seam/

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Re: Seam support on non-JBoss app servers

Posted by: Joerg Schneider on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242316
agree to all what you are saying - in addition to that I'd have the following comments :
1) the fact that those question show up all the time is clearly an evidence that there is a great demand of non-JBoss app server support. I'd therefore think putting this on top of the priority list (as suggested by Gavin) is reasonable. I'm pretty sure, if you'd announce Seam WL10 / EJB30 support in this forum you'll get in trouble with the download bandwith of your server hosting the Seam package :-)

2) as I tried to explain, not everyone has the choice to choose "the best app server" - whatever product that might be. If Seam wants to have a foot in the door of enterprise J2EE environments, support for the major commercial players here is substantial - if these are good products or not is a different question.

3) Hibernate is simply not enough anymore, in these "EJB30" days :-) Again, this is not a statement about the quality of this or that approach or a specific tool or package. Current situation in most companies is, if you say "i use the java core / mainstream" will get you the budget, but if you say "i will use a cool tool" probably raise some concerns. Take it as simple as this.

In german we say something similar like "at home, everyone can be a star" - but that somehow doesn't count in my company :-)

Thanks.

BTW : I even bought your book, even though WL10 is not fully supported. So now I have the book, I wait for the product :-)

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Re: Seam 2.0 has been released

Posted by: Paul Casal on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242251
Congrats to the Seam team. Seam looks the way to go ... I can't wait to use it for jbilling. Yet, we need to finish migrating to JPA, and that won't happen until JBoss 5 is released.

Regards,

Paul Brenoir
Sr Developer
jbilling.com
The Enterprise Open Source Billing System

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Re: Seam support on non-JBoss app servers

Posted by: Gavin King on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242316
But we strongly recommend you use Hibernate as the JPA provider -- not the default TopLink.


Just to clarify this: Seam2 works perfectly with TopLink as the JPA provider, I recently fixed a bug that was causing a problem with this combination.

  Message #242332 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Seam support on non-JBoss app servers

Posted by: Gavin King on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242321
1) the fact that those question show up all the time is clearly an evidence that there is a great demand of non-JBoss app server support. I'd therefore think putting this on top of the priority list (as suggested by Gavin) is reasonable. I'm pretty sure, if you'd announce Seam WL10 / EJB30 support in this forum you'll get in trouble with the download bandwith of your server hosting the Seam package :-)


Yes, we'll get it done.

2) as I tried to explain, not everyone has the choice to choose "the best app server" - whatever product that might be. If Seam wants to have a foot in the door of enterprise J2EE environments, support for the major commercial players here is substantial - if these are good products or not is a different question.


Of course, it is definitely our goal to support all application servers.


3) Hibernate is simply not enough anymore, in these "EJB30" days :-)


Of course. See my post above, AFAIK, there is no problem running with other JPA providers.

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Re: Seam support on non-JBoss app servers

Posted by: Pete Muir on November 07, 2007 in response to Message #242316

* Oracle: Oracle 10 is known to work with Seam (see examples/jee5 and examples/jpa). Again, choose Hibernate as the JPA provider.


A slight typo here - Seam 2 works on OC4J 11 (both EJB3 and JPA), and on OC4J 10 (JPA)

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Is Seam to Solve Problem?

Posted by: Naveen Gayar on November 08, 2007 in response to Message #242253
Is Seam meant to solve a problem which is quite frequent and not been solved by MVC and Injection Frameworks?

If so, What type of problems it solve.
We already have a bunch of Light Weight Frameworks like Spring,Hibernate.But Seam seems to be a heavyweight framework??

How relevant is it to the present world Mr.Johnson?

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Re: Is Seam to Solve Problem?

Posted by: Thai Dang Vu on November 08, 2007 in response to Message #242349
In my opinion, Seam is used to solve problems which are already solved by Spring, Hibernate .... Seam does nothing new but brings you closer to the standards (EJB3, JSF, JPA, about web services, I don't know if Seam uses JAX-WS in JEE5 or something else) and Seam is thought to get you more productivity.

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Re: Is seam portable?

Posted by: Julien Martin on November 08, 2007 in response to Message #242306
Gavin,
I am going to give a shot to the 2.0-GA version of Seam and try and deploy it under Geronimo and Glassfish.
Sorry for the "!!!!"...
Julien.

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Re: Is Seam to Solve Problem?

Posted by: Michael Yuan on November 08, 2007 in response to Message #242349
Is Seam meant to solve a problem which is quite frequent and not been solved by MVC and Injection Frameworks?


Seam is not by itself a MVC framework. It uses annotation for dependency injection and outjection (as opposed to XML). But there are other annotation-based DI frameworks as well. The value of Seam is that it integrates many different technologies in a seamless manner.

To give you an example: We all know that many web applications can really benefit from the use of a Business Process framework and a Rules frameworks. But in reality, few people use BPM/Rules frameworks in their app. They hardcode the business logic to Java code. Why? That is because integration is too hard. In fact, most people are still struggling to integrate MVC with ORM (no, it is not a solved problem in Spring -- you have to use OpenSessionInView to handle lazy loading at the web tier. But that brings in new problems). Seam makes web tier lazy loading automatic.

Seam makes it really easy to integrate other frameworks to your web app. So, you see people use jBPM, Drools, iText, Quartz, Groovy, and many other frameworks with Seam to improve their web apps.


If so, What type of problems it solve.
We already have a bunch of Light Weight Frameworks like Spring,Hibernate.But Seam seems to be a heavyweight framework??

How relevant is it to the present world Mr.Johnson?

Other examples of problems Seam solve:

* No programming in XML

* Build a web site that can work in multiple browser tabs.

* Build a shopping cart with working BACK button (even after you checkout)

* Build fancy Ajax web sites without writing Javascript (well, that is something JSF solves, but still it is provided in Seam)

* Build web sites that serve dynamic PDF documents

* etc etc

As for whether Seam is "lightweight", please define "lightweight". If we are talking about memory footprint here, Java servlet and JDBC are lightweight -- yet I do not see many people building apps directly on those technologies. If you are talking about "POJO component independent of framework", then Seam is at least as lightweight as Spring -- you can use Spring to wire together Seam POJOs.

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Seam and Flex

Posted by: Kyle Burke on November 09, 2007 in response to Message #242312
This may be crazy, but if we're talking about rich client support: how about Flex2 support?


Not crazy at all. I'm very interested in integrating the two, to the degree that I/we can in this version. I may be wrong but I don't think there is any "direct" support for Flex's RemoteObject, as this protocol is proprietary. That is to say, I don't think you can enter the Seam request lifecycle by invoking a Seam component using RemoteObject.

I can think of a couple different ways of getting around it, like using a thin layer between the target of RemoteObject and Seam components...something that looks like a business object but really uses Component.getInstance(seamObjectName) to get real Seam components.

That said, you could easily use Ajax and make use of Seam remoting, discussed in this thread:

http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&t=114080

I'm just ramping up on Flex (and Seam2) but I really want these two technologies to work together in the future, if they don't already.

  Message #242457 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Is Seam to Solve Problem?

Posted by: Delphi's Ghost on November 09, 2007 in response to Message #242349
Is Seam meant to solve a problem which is quite frequent and not been solved by MVC and Injection Frameworks?


Yes, we started looking at web frameworks last year, with little experience with web development. After chugging through JSF, Spring, Spring web flow, Spring MVC, Struts and Webwork, and looking at Appfuse to generate apps and countless others, we settled on Seam before our heads blew up.

We wanted something that would work, that we could just fire up and start writing business code straight away. We didn't want to start worrying about Lazy initialization exceptions, we didn't want to worry about back buttons and multiple windows, maintaining state easily without worrying about the size of the session. We wanted to be able to include ajax if needed without having to go through the timely cost of doing it from scratch.
Thats the way most other programmers work with other languages. They fire up Delphi, or Visual Studio, or Visual Basic, start a new app, write some code, lay out some visual components and they are done. Thats the way software development should work and Seam gives you the ability to work that way.

To anyone who has used Delphi (and I'm a long time Delphi user) I can honestly say that with Seam, you will develop at the speed of Delphi except it is twice as pleasurable.
I have been very resistant to developing for the web instead favoring Win32 apps written in Delphi. It may seem quite dinosaur-ish, but I've been client/server for over 10 years using Delphi, the hassles involved in coding for the web just seems to be like coding with a nail through your groin. It's just so unnecessary, why go through all the pain when you can code for a platform that isn't so fickle.
With Seam, I actually enjoy developing for the web, and am quite looking forward to starting some new projects with it.

If so, What type of problems it solve.
We already have a bunch of Light Weight Frameworks like Spring,Hibernate.But Seam seems to be a heavyweight framework??


Assembly programming is a lightweight framework also. I could write desktop apps in C creating all the visual controls by hand. The question is why would I want to when I can use a framework that operates at a higher level of abstraction. Who wants to sit around getting tiles talking to spring talking to jsf talking to web flow talking to hibernate and then trying to wrap it all up in a build script and getting it to play nice with the IDE?

Seam integrates everything together seamlessly. Its a one stop framework incorporating everything you need. It makes every library available to you that you need to just sit down, write a few entities, optionally, you can code your own CRUD backing beans, or you can extend the seam ones in 10 lines of code, or you don't write any and just specify them in xml, write a couple of jsf pages, specify navigation in a few lines of xml, and you are done with a working app. Furthermore, you automatically get back button and multi window management and JPA session management for free.

Bear in mind that Ruby on Rails grew in popularity during the Spring and Struts era for a reason. Because it provided something the Java frameworks were lacking namely simplicity and productivity, and these are the two features that I think Seam brings in heaps.

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Re: Seam and Flex

Posted by: Jens Halm on November 10, 2007 in response to Message #242447
Not crazy at all. I'm very interested in integrating the two, to the degree that I/we can in this version. I may be wrong but I don't think there is any "direct" support for Flex's RemoteObject, as this protocol is proprietary. That is to say, I don't think you can enter the Seam request lifecycle by invoking a Seam component using RemoteObject.

I can think of a couple different ways of getting around it, like using a thin layer between the target of RemoteObject and Seam components...something that looks like a business object but really uses Component.getInstance(seamObjectName) to get real Seam components.


Actually, if you use Cinnamon (www.spicefactory.org/cinnamon/) Flex and Seam are almost integrated. All you need to do is write a simple ServiceFactory, that glues Cinnamon and Seam together. It has a builtin SpringServiceFactory for example, and if you look at the code you'll notice that its implementation is trivial. Should be a matter of a few minutes to port that to Seam. (I won't be able to do it right now, because I have zero experience with Seam, but that will certainly change sometime).

Cinnamon does not use the RemoteObject API though, for two reasons:

1) The framework was designed to also be usable with pure AS3 clients that do not use the Flex Framework.

2) We do not think that RemoteObject is a well designed API, especially since you lose type safety (RemoteObjects are generic proxies so you won't get any compiler errors if you mistype the method name or pass the wrong number of parameters, etc.). Instead Cinnamon advocates to "port" service interfaces from Java to AS3 and in later milestones this task will be automated with Ant tasks.

Furthermore the framework contains a lot of options for mapping ActionScript classes to Java classes and although it does not support the RemoteObject API it does rely on the simple and efficient AMF3 binary protocol like RemoteObject.

It contains integration with Spring for configuration, but that is entirely optional, so when you use Cinnamon with Seam it is very likely that you would prefer to use Cinnamons own simple XML configuration format instead. And if anyone shows me a way to configure the framework in a way that would be more "natural" for Seam applications (maybe using Guice?) I might add that to future versions too.

The initial milestone has just been released a week ago, so it is in early development stage. But we have already been using it in production for several months in our own projects.

Jens Halm
Spicefactory

  Message #242481 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Is Seam to Solve Problem?

Posted by: Henri Karapuu on November 11, 2007 in response to Message #242375
Other examples of problems Seam solve:

* No programming in XML

* Build a web site that can work in multiple browser tabs.

* Build a shopping cart with working BACK button (even after you checkout)


I think it's kind of funny that your top features today are something that was taken granted in the 1996 :)

I know Seam pretty well, and i think it's a good and well designed framework, but what you wrote shows how great tragedy the stateless HTTP has been, and how much workarounds and kludges have been needed to hide the stateless nature under 'Conversation Scope' and all that jazz.

/Henri Karapuu

  Message #242487 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Seam 2.0 has been released

Posted by: Techieexchange Techieexchange on November 11, 2007 in response to Message #242251
Hi,
Thanks to Seam team for 2.0.0 GA release.

I wrote a step-by-step screencast tutorial to make Seam development as RAD - Rapid Application Development with Eclipse and Tomcat, focussing on developer productivity.

http://techieexchange.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/rad-seam-development-with-eclipse-and-tomcat-step-by-step-tutorial-screencast/

  Message #242543 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Much love for Seam!

Posted by: Sam D on November 12, 2007 in response to Message #242251
Excellent work guys. We are building our application using Seam, RichFaces, Ajax4jsf (which is now bundled with RichFaces and Hibernate for the JPA on top of GlassFish. All and all they work very well together. Two questions though.

1.) Will there be support for NetBeans? Presently the NB Enterprise Application structure is not supported. We basically created a scaffolding project that has the correct setup for NB that we reuse. Although, it looks like IntelliJ is building in Seam support so we might jump ship just for the fact they have excellent Groovy support plus upcoming Seam.

2.) Is the JMS Remoting JavaScript functionality no longer experimental? We had a requirement where server side push was more suitable and since the push mechanism in Seam was described as experimental we went with DWR.

Thanks,

S.D.

  Message #242568 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Seam in portlets with JSF

Posted by: Paul Anderson on November 13, 2007 in response to Message #242251
I'd love to use Seam, but in portlets, and ideally with JSF. This was tricky before because of non-standard JSF portlet bridges (such as for Tomahawk) and an ill-defined lifecycle mapping. With JSF1.2 and a standard JSF bridge slowly coming together, does anyone know if this scenario will be supported soon?

  Message #242585 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Seam in portlets with JSF

Posted by: Sam D on November 13, 2007 in response to Message #242568
It is unfortunate to see that neither JSR-286 or JSR-301 will make it into JEE6.

  Message #242775 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: remote EJB supported?

Posted by: alain hsiung on November 17, 2007 in response to Message #242265
Thanks Gavin. I'm not sure if I understand you.
I take a usual use case.
Without Seam, a JSF backing bean is implemented as a JavaBean.
With Seam the backing bean is the Entity Bean, declared with @In on the Session Bean.
This works fine when the Session Bean is declared as local EJB and didn't work (with previous version) if the Session Bean is remote.

My question: does this use case works now with Seam 2.0 when the EJBs live remote?
Remote mean for me that there are multiple EARs (1 for the web components and 1 for the ejb components). The web container runs on a different machine than the ejb container. Different IPs, deployment plans, life cycles, etc.

The other use case is many different EJBs in chain, each living on a different EJB container (on a different machine).
I'm not sure if this will work with @EJB or not because no global context may span multiple EARs (as you mentioned).

There are definitely no "global" contexts that span multiple EARs (and I don't think there should be).

why not?

  Message #242851 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Support for non-JSF environments

Posted by: Frank Martinez on November 20, 2007 in response to Message #242251
I started a Wicket-Seam integration module. The maven2 project is at https://wicket-stuff.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/wicket-stuff/trunk/
And i posted an example project in my blog: http://www.ibstaff.net/fmartinez/?p=41
There is not much documentation yet but the example project is a good point to start. (It is a Netbeans 6.0 project configured to deploy to Glassfish V2 and uses Seam 2.0.GA)

Regards,

Frank D. Martinez M.
Asimov Technologies.

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