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News: Dell to trademark "cloud computing"?

  1. Dell to trademark "cloud computing"? (50 messages)

    According to The Industry Standard and confirmed by a trademark search at the US Patent and Trademark Office, Dell is one step away from being granted a trademark on the term "cloud computing." The Industry Standard item cites a posting from the Google Groups Cloud Computing Group. You can read the item at http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/08/01/dell-has-applied-trademark-term-cloud-computing. The definition under which Dell has applied for the trademark is "the design of computer hardware for use in data centers and mega-scale computing environments for others; customization of computer hardware for use in data centers and mega-scale computing environments for others." Perhaps Shakespeare was right when he said in Henry VI: "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

    Threaded Messages (50)

  2. I call for trademarking the 'Internet'. Or has it been done already?
  3. Thanks Peter[ Go to top ]

    Thanks for sourcing the guys who originally found it. So far, I think you are the only one giving credit where it is due. :)
  4. America Patents[ Go to top ]

    I am sure that eventually some clever America will patent and trademark oil. As I understand it recently, they have not got the connection between money and housing - but that is just a temporary thing what will all of the money they are spending on education contra bombing the world back into the stone age.
  5. And I thought it had something to do with vaporware...
  6. /facepalm
  7. Everyone can just start spelling it Cleod computing. This has the side benefit of educating the public on the correct pronunciation of Scottish surnames.
  8. Re: Dell to trademark ...[ Go to top ]

    Ahhh. I thought it was crap computers they had a trademark on. Must have got mixed up :-)
  9. Is there a lobby that is fighting against ridiculous things like this (especially software patents) in Washington D.C.? If not, maybe it's time to start one. That's about the only way these issues are going to get government attention in the U.S.
  10. Re: Dell to trademark "cloud computing"?[ Go to top ]

    Is there a lobby that is fighting against ridiculous things like this (especially software patents) in Washington D.C.? If not, maybe it's time to start one. That's about the only way these issues are going to get government attention in the U.S.
    Yeah, it is called the next election. Vote ALL incumbents out.
  11. Better get McBush out of there.
  12. Better get McBush out of there.
    Time will take care of that. It is all the others at all levels and NOT just one party.
  13. Vote ALL incumbents out.
    That's a pretty simple minded and irresponsible approach. Don't you think that a lot of the alternatives are even worse than the incumbents they are up against? I'm not opposed to a "when in doubt, throw them out" sort of mind set, but as citizens and voters it is our responsiblity to do some research first and try to determine whether the incumbent deserves our support or not.
  14. That's a pretty simple minded
    Maybe. But most humans are simple minded. And to be fair, that is the way things used to be - it was a short term thing. If politicians knew they were there to do a good job and not keep their job they might actually do a good job.
    and irresponsible approach.
    Really? You think the choices are really that good and that different?
    Don't you think that a lot of the alternatives are even worse than the incumbents they are up against?
    No. The main problem is "lifers". Think about it. What kind of people cause a lot of problems in our industry. In the military we use to call them furniture.
    I'm not opposed to a "when in doubt, throw them out" sort of mind set, but as citizens and voters it is our responsiblity to do some research first and try to determine whether the incumbent deserves our support or not.
    That would be nice if: 1. People actually did that. 2. People were smart enough to actually do that. Show me a hand full of worthwhile people who has been in more than one term. I can easily show you the other list - Senator Byrd ...
  15. Re: Dell to trademark "cloud computing"?[ Go to top ]

    Is there a lobby that is fighting against ridiculous things like this (especially software patents) in Washington D.C.? If not, maybe it's time to start one. That's about the only way these issues are going to get government attention in the U.S.

    Yeah, it is called the next election. Vote ALL incumbents out.
    I'm serious. If there's already a lobby, I'm ready to contribute to it. If not, I think it's high time that a lobby were created to represent the interests of developers who oppose ridiculous software patents or in this case copyrights. Large vendors who are already represented by lobbies may have too much invested in patents although I think some might support sensible rules changes if things were already rolling. I'm not a huge fan of lobbies but this is how the world we live in works. We can't wait for congress to do the right thing just because it makes sense especially given that that day may never come.
  16. James, lobbies are mostly for those who have a signficant financial incentive in a particular point of view. I think most of us would simply like to bring sanity to something that isn't. If you take the long view, you can argue that these things tend to work themselves out eventually. But you have to wonder what the decision-makers at Dell were smoking.
  17. James, lobbies are mostly for those who have a signficant financial incentive in a particular point of view.
    That's not really true. Consider NRML, the NRA, the pro-life and pro-choice lobbies. There are many, many lobbies. Lobbies are for special interest groups and those interests aren't necessarily financial. As a group, developers are fairly well-heeled and we do in fact have significant financial interest in fighting this kind of behavior.
    I think most of us would simply like to bring sanity to something that isn't. If you take the long view, you can argue that these things tend to work themselves out eventually.
    Developers as a group tend to thing that the world should behave rationally. This is why we are drawn to computers. No matter how frustrating they may be at times, they almost always behave rationally. The reality is that people as a whole are not rational and the world doesn't always behave rationally. Empirical studies have demonstrated this. The idea that people should or will behave rationally is irrational.
    But you have to wonder what the decision-makers at Dell were smoking.
    Really? You can't see why a faltering computer company would want to take ownership of the name of a hot trend in computing? These are the kinds of things corporations do. Corporations are sociopaths. They can't be expected to be reasonable. They must be constrained in order to be benign.
  18. I agree with the above post. A company will take advantage of anything even if it's not ethical. There must be regulation and that's where the government must step in. One can not expect the company to ignore such opportunity when others can do it just like themselves. In other words Dell is not the one at fault here, but the U.S. authorities (patent's office?).
  19. James, lobbies are mostly for those who have a signficant financial incentive in a particular point of view.


    That's not really true. Consider NRML, the NRA, the pro-life and pro-choice lobbies. There are many, many lobbies. Lobbies are for special interest groups and those interests aren't necessarily financial.
    NRML has been fairly ineffective. Any change in attitudes about pot have occured as a result of two generations of voters having some considerable experience with the plant. It's sort of a consumer movement, but pot is still illegal. The NRA represents a large number of single issue voters. Are developers single issue voters? I'm not. If you cannot guarantee substantial financial contributions and/or large numbers of votes, then your lobby will find it difficult to persuade our esteemed elected officials. I think that patent and trademark trolls are our best bet and we should support them. If they aggravate enough corporations then perhaps they'll add patent, copyright and trademark reform to their agenda. The tactics of the entertainment associations' have helped mobilize some consumer sentiment as well. L hope they keep being draconian. I hope they sue some senator or his kid.
  20. NRML has been fairly ineffective. Any change in attitudes about pot have occured as a result of two generations of voters having some considerable experience with the plant. It's sort of a consumer movement, but pot is still illegal.

    The NRA represents a large number of single issue voters. Are developers single issue voters?
    Great but this none of this is a contradiction of the point I was making. These were just well known examples of lobbies that are not primarily financially motivated. There are literally thousands of lobbyists in D.C. and at least a thousand issues being represented.
    I'm not.
    I don't care.
    If you cannot guarantee substantial financial contributions and/or large numbers of votes, then your lobby will find it difficult to persuade our esteemed elected officials.
    So basically your theory is that all these lobbyists making well over 6 figures are just wasting the money of their backers. I'd wager there are at least a few lobbyists representing the patent trolls. You can pretend that lobbyists don't hold great influence over our government but the reality is that they do. If you don't have lobbyists, you don't have representation.
  21. So basically your theory is that all these lobbyists making well over 6 figures are just wasting the money of their backers. I'd wager there are at least a few lobbyists representing the patent trolls.
    I'm saying that some lobbyists have more influence than others and that some tactics yield better results than others. Developers are not single issue voters and we're unlikely to fork over large sums of money. Our best bet is to bring other constituencies into this fight to broaden our base. For example when the lobbyists for IT workers (see, we have a lobby, sort of) go up against the IT trade associations that abuse the H1B and L1 visa systems, they get the most traction when they make this a general labor issue and get people to realize its not just an IT problem. Similarly, trademark, patent and copyright abuses need to be seen as a barrier to innovation and business growth and an infringement on all consumers. Otherwise we're just a bunch of whining geeks as far as the general public and politicians are concerned.
  22. Re: Dell to trademark "cloud computing"?[ Go to top ]

    Is there a lobby that is fighting against ridiculous things like this (especially software patents) in Washington D.C.? If not, maybe it's time to start one. That's about the only way these issues are going to get government attention in the U.S.

    Yeah, it is called the next election. Vote ALL incumbents out.


    I'm serious. If there's already a lobby, I'm ready to contribute to it. If not, I think it's high time that a lobby were created to represent the interests of developers who oppose ridiculous software patents or in this case copyrights. Large vendors who are already represented by lobbies may have too much invested in patents although I think some might support sensible rules changes if things were already rolling.

    I'm not a huge fan of lobbies but this is how the world we live in works. We can't wait for congress to do the right thing just because it makes sense especially given that that day may never come.
    I was serious too. But I doubt it will help as this stuff is usually decided by non-elected officials. A lobby might help. I don't like lobbies either. But if you can' beat 'em ...
  23. Dell is one step away from being granted a trademark on the term "cloud computing."
    That's OK, I just trademarked the little "TM" and "R" symbols. Peace, Cameron Purdy Oracle Coherence: Data Grid for Java and .NET
  24. seti @ home[ Go to top ]

    mega scale means million, so that would mean pretty much every PC ... see: http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
  25. Americans are so special...
  26. As they say - Only in America! -John- (in Europe, where at least on trademarks common sense prevails)
  27. Americans are so special...
    How very smug of you. I suppose your government is a shining example to the world in all things.
  28. Americans are so special...


    How very smug of you. I suppose your government is a shining example to the world in all things.
    At least we don't try to discredit countries who disagree with us.
  29. Americans are so special...


    How very smug of you. I suppose your government is a shining example to the world in all things.


    At least we don't try to discredit countries who disagree with us.
    It's off topic so I won't pursue it after this, but except for a few of the tiniest of countries, I doubt if there is one whose government hasn't attempted to discredit others at some point. Of course, by insulting some 300 million people with some very vague accusation and no supporting facts, you don't need others to discredit you.
  30. Americans are so special...


    How very smug of you. I suppose your government is a shining example to the world in all things.


    At least we don't try to discredit countries who disagree with us.


    It's off topic so I won't pursue it after this, but except for a few of the tiniest of countries, I doubt if there is one whose government hasn't attempted to discredit others at some point. Of course, by insulting some 300 million people with some very vague accusation and no supporting facts, you don't need others to discredit you.
    I DO come from a very tiny country where Americans have more than affected it's government and development over the years, and I can provide sounds facts about this. In fact this is mostly the case in Latin America as a whole. They have done way more harm to this country than me to you by saying "Americans are so special...". I wonder how can you be so sensitive to such trivial things while ignoring people dying overseas due to your policies... The fact is your country has some serious issues. If there is anything you could do to get better, do it. But try to get out of that denial state.
  31. Keep politics out[ Go to top ]

    Isaias, Keep your personal politics out of this technology forum to avoid sounding hallow and cheap. There are other places to vent out your wounded innocents... Best, Nikita Ivanov.
  32. Americans are so special...


    How very smug of you. I suppose your government is a shining example to the world in all things.
    No, at all, but read again (I copy here for your convenience).
    (in Europe, where at least on trademarks common sense prevails)
    And just to stay in topic http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=50095 Guido
  33. No, at all, but read again (I copy here for your convenience).
    (in Europe, where at least on trademarks common sense prevails)
    Guido, that is what John wrote, not Isaias. I was responding to Isaias, not John. What John wrote was a comment on differences between EU and USA laws which was on topic and fair. Isaias contributed nothing in this post of his. Later, you'll see that Isaias attempts to discredit the American government by claiming that they attempt to discredit those they disagree with. He completely missed the irony of that.
  34. No, at all, but read again (I copy here for your convenience).
    (in Europe, where at least on trademarks common sense prevails)

    Guido, that is what John wrote, not Isaias. I was responding to Isaias, not John. What John wrote was a comment on differences between EU and USA laws which was on topic and fair. Isaias contributed nothing in this post of his. Later, you'll see that Isaias attempts to discredit the American government by claiming that they attempt to discredit those they disagree with. He completely missed the irony of that.
    I only replied like that because you took my post (which has no concrete meaning at all...) out of proportion, like saying I insult 300 million people, etc. The point is that if Dell can patent "cloud computing" then there must be a problem with the system.
  35. Dell is not trying to patent "cloud computing"; they are trying to trademark it. That's very different. A patent would give Dell a monopoly at least in the U.S. on most if not all implementations that seem to be "cloud computing". A trademark only gives them ownership of the term "cloud computing", but not the concept or the implemenation. The effect would be that if you tried to offer cloud computing services in the U.S. you would have to call it something else. The U.S. patent system is so screwed up that if wouldn't surprise me if someone did try to patent cloud computing, but that isn't the case here, yet.
  36. Dell is not trying to patent "cloud computing"; they are trying to trademark it. That's very different. A patent would give Dell a monopoly at least in the U.S. on most if not all implementations that seem to be "cloud computing". A trademark only gives them ownership of the term "cloud computing", but not the concept or the implemenation. The effect would be that if you tried to offer cloud computing services in the U.S. you would have to call it something else.

    The U.S. patent system is so screwed up that if wouldn't surprise me if someone did try to patent cloud computing, but that isn't the case here, yet.
    OK, I get the difference, but both smell as someone putting his hat on what is, somehow, "common sense", without any contribution. Guido
  37. OK, I get the difference, but both smell as someone putting his hat on what is, somehow, "common sense", without any contribution.

    Guido
    Yes, that's why I associated this with the more insidious problem of software patents. Different system, same stupidity. I personally feel there should be a federal/congressional investigation of the U.S. patent office. There's either a problem with gross incompetence or corruption. They should not awarding patents for a lot of the things people are applying for. I know it's a tired example but consider again the patent for a 'style of swinging'. Does anyone actually think it's possible that a patent clerk read through that, understood it and then awarded a patent? It makes me insane to consider that this may actually be what happened.
  38. OK, I get the difference, but both smell as someone putting his hat on what is, somehow, "common sense", without any contribution.

    Guido


    Yes, that's why I associated this with the more insidious problem of software patents. Different system, same stupidity.

    I personally feel there should be a federal/congressional investigation of the U.S. patent office. There's either a problem with gross incompetence or corruption. They should not awarding patents for a lot of the things people are applying for. I know it's a tired example but consider again the patent for a 'style of swinging'. Does anyone actually think it's possible that a patent clerk read through that, understood it and then awarded a patent? It makes me insane to consider that this may actually be what happened.
    The problem IS Congress. http://www.uspto.gov/go/og/2000/week52/pattrdp.htm. In late 2000, the USPTO was classified as a Performance Based Organization(PBO) responsible for it's own financial state by the " U.S. Patent and Trademark Office Efficiency Act of 1999". Congress requires the USPTO to be 'self-funded' with their only source of funding being user filing fees. High Volume is their lifeblood versus quality. Congress needs to get their heads out of their collective arses and realize the stupidity of the Effeciency Act. I'm not defending the USPTO per se (stupid is as stupid does and all that), but it seems they've been left with few options to survive other than entertain even more stupidity. This structure lends itself to the abuses by the members(ie. patent and trademark seekers) since it's this community that keeps on giving. Sort of like herpes. What we need is protection from Congress. The recent Congresses definitely have been chosen from the short bus crew of candidates.
  39. In late 2000, the USPTO was classified as a Performance Based Organization(PBO) responsible for it's own financial state by the " U.S. Patent and Trademark Office Efficiency Act of 1999".

    Congress requires the USPTO to be 'self-funded' with their only source of funding being user filing fees. High Volume is their lifeblood versus quality. Congress needs to get their heads out of their collective arses and realize the stupidity of the Effeciency Act.

    I'm not defending the USPTO per se (stupid is as stupid does and all that), but it seems they've been left with few options to survive other than entertain even more stupidity. This structure lends itself to the abuses by the members(ie. patent and trademark seekers) since it's this community that keeps on giving. Sort of like herpes.

    What we need is protection from Congress. The recent Congresses definitely have been chosen from the short bus crew of candidates.
    All the more reason that this problem needs attention in Congress. It's pretty likely that only Congress can undo this mistake.
  40. All the more reason that this problem needs attention in Congress. It's pretty likely that only Congress can undo this mistake.
    If you read Slashdot at all you'll see they cover these issues quite a bit. Apparently there is some hope that the courts will undo the worst abuses like patenting software that is not part of a hardware solution, business practices and processes and other ethereal "inventions". There have been some court decisions in this direction already and things are moving up the Federal chain where we may get some relief.


  41. All the more reason that this problem needs attention in Congress. It's pretty likely that only Congress can undo this mistake.
    Then call your Congressman and good luck to you. I've done it in the past, gone to 'town meetings' and such on other issues more pressing than this and they could give a crap. Photo op or donation op only, please. An Executive Order overturning the ACT under International Commerce rules would be preferable because Congress doesn't have the stomach to do what's right under any circumstance. Commerce is now a cabinet position, so maybe it could even be a decree from the Commerce Secretary, who knows but please no Congress. Barring a few exceptions, the only qualifications the majority of these dimwits possess is opposable thumbs.
  42. No, at all, but read again (I copy here for your convenience).
    (in Europe, where at least on trademarks common sense prevails)

    Guido, that is what John wrote, not Isaias. I was responding to Isaias, not John. What John wrote was a comment on differences between EU and USA laws which was on topic and fair.
    Yes, I know, and, in fact, I was quoting your reply to John :-)
    How very smug of you. I suppose your government is a shining example to the world in all things.
    Isaias contributed nothing in this post of his. Later, you'll see that Isaias attempts to discredit the American government by claiming that they attempt to discredit those they disagree with. He completely missed the irony of that.
    Agree, but I have read, between the lines, that you wanted some other examples of the American way of handling patent, that's why I posted the link. Guido

  43. It would be interesting to know who was the first to use the term "cloud computing" in public. In other word, who is the ultimate sufferer? :-) Regards, Slava Imeshev Cacheonix: Clustered Java Cache
  44. Mist Computing[ Go to top ]

    I blogged about "Mist Computing" about a year ago. I think it's going to catch up... Let's just move on from cloud computing already. :) Regards, Nikita Ivanov. GridGain - Grid Computing Made Simple
  45. Let me quickly register the term collective computing as : " the design of computer hard- and software, with all kinds of technical and biotechnological interfaces to ensure optimal access for others to the collective..." We are Borg resistance is futile. -Sigh- Regards, Yuri Vrancken.
  46. If you don't have lobbyists, you don't have representation.
    Pretty much sums it up.
  47. If you don't have lobbyists, you don't have representation.


    Pretty much sums it up.
    Yes, and to be fair, this is not a US only problem. Most countries have these issues, however I think it is less evident as the current situation over there.
  48. Most countries have these issues
    No, ALL countries have the same issue, perhaps in different flavor. Small groups of people which control anything controllable on this planet of ours care only about 2 things: money and power, so while some people, me included, are discussing some 'important' stuff over the internetzz real players are making real money. So all these democracy/serve the people concepts are kind of silly. Ohh, and did I mention my post has almost nothing to do with this thread?
  49. Shame on dell
  50. 3Tera attemps to do the same :)[ Go to top ]

    http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1007745/3Tera-Trys-to-Trademark-Cloud-Computing-without-Compromise Rat race... Regards, Nikita Ivanov.
  51. I have some scrapbook notes from meetings held in Feb 2000 with Borland at their San Mateo office regarding a proposed Java enterprise management solution that provisioned "computing services" via "clouds" that represented abstractions on top of their existing application server platform. At the same time I was working on a distributed cache prototype based on Borlands VisiBroker that was called VisiCache. The following year I was given the opportunity to build out a prototype of some of my ideas in a product called Borland AppSimulator unfortunetly I forget to add JBuilder somewhere in the title and this provisioning and integrated performance management solution died. Admittedly a few people thought the solution was 10 years away. I am sure there are many similar cases of this in other companies. William