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    <title>Support Forums: Message List - A Tale of Four JVMs and One App Server</title>
    <link>http://www.theserverside.com</link>
    <description>Most recent forum messages</description>
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    <pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 03:42:38 -0400</pubDate>


    <item>

        <title>Isn't it obvious?</title>
        <link>http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=53968</link>

        

        
            <description><![CDATA[The method order being relied upon is the order of declaration.  Even if the API promised this to be the consistent sort order, most (hopefully all) of us here would agree that relying on that would be a mistake....]]></description>
        

        <pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:38:04 -0400</pubDate>

        

        <jf:creationDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:38:04 -0400</jf:creationDate>
        <jf:modificationDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:38:04 -0400</jf:modificationDate>
        <jf:date>Mar 18, 2009</jf:date>
        <jf:author>Jesse Sightler</jf:author>
        <jf:replyCount>0</jf:replyCount>
    </item>


    <item>

        <title>Re: A Tale of Four JVMs and One App Server</title>
        <link>http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=53968</link>

        

        
            <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>I commend your intentions but the real problem here is that this industry lacks an apprenticeship and mentoring culture.  Developers graduate from college (or not) and start hacking away without any guidance.</blockquote>Exactly. That’s why...]]></description>
        

        <pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:54:23 -0400</pubDate>

        

        <jf:creationDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:54:23 -0400</jf:creationDate>
        <jf:modificationDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:54:23 -0400</jf:modificationDate>
        <jf:date>Mar 17, 2009</jf:date>
        <jf:author>Vitaly Mikheev</jf:author>
        <jf:replyCount>0</jf:replyCount>
    </item>


    <item>

        <title>Re: Relying on order of members returned by Reflection API</title>
        <link>http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=53968</link>

        

        
            <description><![CDATA[This one was to damn funny: ...]]></description>
        

        <pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:10:05 -0400</pubDate>

        

        <jf:creationDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:10:05 -0400</jf:creationDate>
        <jf:modificationDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:10:05 -0400</jf:modificationDate>
        <jf:date>Mar 17, 2009</jf:date>
        <jf:author>Vijay Kandy</jf:author>
        <jf:replyCount>0</jf:replyCount>
    </item>


    <item>

        <title>Re: A Tale of Four JVMs and One App Server</title>
        <link>http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=53968</link>

        

        
            <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>There is an (owful) phenomenon in the industry concerning “emulation of old bugs just to let the existing applications work”. We are still a long way from  removing that bad practice from the software platforms but I hoped to make a decent...]]></description>
        

        <pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:38:43 -0400</pubDate>

        

        <jf:creationDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:38:43 -0400</jf:creationDate>
        <jf:modificationDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:38:43 -0400</jf:modificationDate>
        <jf:date>Mar 17, 2009</jf:date>
        <jf:author>James Watson</jf:author>
        <jf:replyCount>1</jf:replyCount>
    </item>


    <item>

        <title>Re: Relying on order of members returned by Reflection API</title>
        <link>http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=53968</link>

        

        
            <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>James, I understand your point, but IMO you need to grade on a curve. Lots of developers read things into an API's contract, even when they shouldn't; it doesn't make them "bad developers" but simply "busy developers" in a lot of...]]></description>
        

        <pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:28:43 -0400</pubDate>

        

        <jf:creationDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:28:43 -0400</jf:creationDate>
        <jf:modificationDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:28:43 -0400</jf:modificationDate>
        <jf:date>Mar 17, 2009</jf:date>
        <jf:author>James Watson</jf:author>
        <jf:replyCount>0</jf:replyCount>
    </item>


    <item>

        <title>Re: Relying on order of members returned by Reflection API</title>
        <link>http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=53968</link>

        

        
            <description><![CDATA[James, I understand your point, but IMO you need to grade on a curve. Lots of developers read things into an API's contract, even when they shouldn't; it doesn't make them "bad developers" but simply "busy developers" in a lot of cases.]]></description>
        

        <pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:18:23 -0400</pubDate>

        

        <jf:creationDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:18:23 -0400</jf:creationDate>
        <jf:modificationDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:18:23 -0400</jf:modificationDate>
        <jf:date>Mar 17, 2009</jf:date>
        <jf:author>Joseph Ottinger</jf:author>
        <jf:replyCount>1</jf:replyCount>
    </item>


    <item>

        <title>Re: A Tale of Four JVMs and One App Server</title>
        <link>http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=53968</link>

        

        
            <description><![CDATA[Rich,...]]></description>
        

        <pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:06:42 -0400</pubDate>

        

        <jf:creationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:06:42 -0400</jf:creationDate>
        <jf:modificationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:06:42 -0400</jf:modificationDate>
        <jf:date>Mar 16, 2009</jf:date>
        <jf:author>Vitaly Mikheev</jf:author>
        <jf:replyCount>2</jf:replyCount>
    </item>


    <item>

        <title>Re: A Tale of Four JVMs and One App Server</title>
        <link>http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=53968</link>

        

        
            <description><![CDATA[While Java is good at insulating developers from portability concerns - it's not perfect and likely never will be....]]></description>
        

        <pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:19:59 -0400</pubDate>

        

        <jf:creationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:19:59 -0400</jf:creationDate>
        <jf:modificationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:19:59 -0400</jf:modificationDate>
        <jf:date>Mar 16, 2009</jf:date>
        <jf:author>Rich Sharples</jf:author>
        <jf:replyCount>3</jf:replyCount>
    </item>


    <item>

        <title>Re: A Tale of Four JVMs and One App Server</title>
        <link>http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=53968</link>

        

        
            <description><![CDATA[Agreed...]]></description>
        

        <pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:42:44 -0400</pubDate>

        

        <jf:creationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:42:44 -0400</jf:creationDate>
        <jf:modificationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:42:44 -0400</jf:modificationDate>
        <jf:date>Mar 16, 2009</jf:date>
        <jf:author>Billy Newport</jf:author>
        <jf:replyCount>0</jf:replyCount>
    </item>


    <item>

        <title>Re: Relying on order of members returned by Reflection API</title>
        <link>http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=53968</link>

        

        
            <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>Is it <i>news</i>? Not if you've not run into the problem before. I first found out about it from the JRockit team; it was interesting if not earth-shatteringly important at the time, but the real value is that I <i>knew</i> about...]]></description>
        

        <pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:11:10 -0400</pubDate>

        

        <jf:creationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:11:10 -0400</jf:creationDate>
        <jf:modificationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:11:10 -0400</jf:modificationDate>
        <jf:date>Mar 16, 2009</jf:date>
        <jf:author>James Watson</jf:author>
        <jf:replyCount>2</jf:replyCount>
    </item>


    <item>

        <title>Re: Relying on order of members returned by Reflection API</title>
        <link>http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=53968</link>

        

        
            <description><![CDATA[Is it <i>news</i>? Not if you've not run into the problem before. I first found out about it from the JRockit team; it was interesting if not earth-shatteringly important at the time, but the real value is that I <i>knew</i> about it....]]></description>
        

        <pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:46:34 -0400</pubDate>

        

        <jf:creationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:46:34 -0400</jf:creationDate>
        <jf:modificationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:46:34 -0400</jf:modificationDate>
        <jf:date>Mar 16, 2009</jf:date>
        <jf:author>Joseph Ottinger</jf:author>
        <jf:replyCount>3</jf:replyCount>
    </item>


    <item>

        <title>Re: Relying on order of members returned by Reflection API</title>
        <link>http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=53968</link>

        

        
            <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>We see that kind of behavior quite often. Luckily less an less in production grade code, but e.g. Spring test suite will fail on any other JVM, but Sun. Generally it would have been much better if Java API wouldn't return those members sorted...]]></description>
        

        <pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:30:42 -0400</pubDate>

        

        <jf:creationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:30:42 -0400</jf:creationDate>
        <jf:modificationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:30:42 -0400</jf:modificationDate>
        <jf:date>Mar 16, 2009</jf:date>
        <jf:author>James Watson</jf:author>
        <jf:replyCount>5</jf:replyCount>
    </item>


    <item>

        <title>Re: A Tale of Four JVMs and One App Server</title>
        <link>http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=53968</link>

        

        
            <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>The lesson learned: Java applications may not rely on JVM features that are not enforced by the Java specification.</blockquote>...]]></description>
        

        <pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:26:33 -0400</pubDate>

        

        <jf:creationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:26:33 -0400</jf:creationDate>
        <jf:modificationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:26:33 -0400</jf:modificationDate>
        <jf:date>Mar 16, 2009</jf:date>
        <jf:author>James Watson</jf:author>
        <jf:replyCount>0</jf:replyCount>
    </item>


    <item>

        <title>Relying on order of members returned by Reflection API</title>
        <link>http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=53968</link>

        

        
            <description><![CDATA[We see that kind of behavior quite often. Luckily less an less in production grade code, but e.g. Spring test suite will fail on any other JVM, but Sun. Generally it would have been much better if Java API wouldn't return those members sorted to begin...]]></description>
        

        <pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:52:00 -0400</pubDate>

        

        <jf:creationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:52:00 -0400</jf:creationDate>
        <jf:modificationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:52:00 -0400</jf:modificationDate>
        <jf:date>Mar 16, 2009</jf:date>
        <jf:author>Jevgeni Kabanov</jf:author>
        <jf:replyCount>6</jf:replyCount>
    </item>


    <item>

        <title>A Tale of Four JVMs and One App Server</title>
        <link>http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=53968</link>

        

        
            <description><![CDATA[A user has recently reported in the JBoss issue tracker that <a href="https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/JBAS-6429">JBoss AS 5.0.0 GA fails to start on the IBM JRE</a>. One may say: So what? Didn't you hear that the IBM JRE "fits better" for...]]></description>
        

        <pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:07:57 -0400</pubDate>

        

        <jf:creationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:07:57 -0400</jf:creationDate>
        <jf:modificationDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:07:57 -0400</jf:modificationDate>
        <jf:date>Mar 16, 2009</jf:date>
        <jf:author>Vitaly Mikheev</jf:author>
        <jf:replyCount>14</jf:replyCount>
    </item>



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