Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business


News: Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business

  1. Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business (40 messages)

    A former employee at WebGain has confirmed that the company is no longer in business. He called the WebGain circus, "How to spend $200 million in 24 months," and claimed that their are still about 8 employee's left who are still selling VisualCafe to customers, even though, "it is not being supported and all engineering has been fired."

    Read Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business.

    Read WebGain uncertainty an opening for rivals.

    Threaded Messages (40)

  2. No surprises here.

    That very public auction was the death knell.
  3. Hi,

    I wonder who BEA will embrace as their IDE of choice now.

    My vote is for JBuilder.

  4. IntelliJ might be a better choice for IDE partner.
  5. <quote>
    My vote is for JBuilder.

    My vote is for eclipse. There might be some political issues though ;-)

  6. J++. No, I'm not kidding.

    Hopefully I'll get around to finding the latest version of Visual Slick Edit, but until then ....


    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.

  7. I'd suggest Netbeans

    -- Igor
  8. Wonder if Webgain would be willing to put the source code for Visual Cafe and their other products out in the open source community.

  9. Don´t agree[ Go to top ]

    "Wonder if Webgain would be willing to put the source code for Visual Cafe and their other products out in the open source community. "

    The Java camp could use some consolidation (in open source as well as in commercial). I think that with the Netbeans-Eclipse split we have enough (my current vote is for Eclipse).
  10. NetBeans is very slow. It is no match for JBuilder!


  11.    I vote for Pramati Studio.It's neatly build,can integrated with weblogic and websphere.

      Great Studio....

  12. A vote for Netbeans[ Go to top ]

    "NetBeans is very slow."

    Perhaps you may want to cut down on those espressos and lattes ;-)

    Netbeans is anything but slow, my vote is for Netbeans, it's a great IDE.

    -- Igor
  13. A vote for Netbeans[ Go to top ]

    I think the correct assessment is that Netbeans is slower than JBuilder, but the speed is still more than adequate.

    Both are very good products although JBuilder has a better thought out user interface.

    I use both and highly reccommend either. If you have the $$$ to burn, get JBuilder. If not, Netbeans should be fine.

    Sun has an IDE called Forte for Java which is built on top of Netbeans. The price is more reasonable and makes more sense than JBuilder. I highly reccommend that one too. Download it and take it for a test drive.
  14. Hi,

    I think BEA will switch to Borlands JBuilder as their prefered IDE because the two companies have recently started to have closer links.

    It is also possible that BEA may behind the Eclipse or Netbeans projects. However BEA supporting Eclipse is less likely though due to Eclipses connection with IBM.

    I didn't mean this to get into a war of whose got the best IDE but more of a discussion of who will BEA will support in this area. BEA may at the end of the day choose to back no IDE after getting its hands so badly burnt with Visual Cafe.

    Off couse at the end of it all the loss of Webgain is a major blow to BEA in its battle with IBM to provide the best end to end solution in the J2EE environment.


  15. EMACS/JDEE gets my vote.
  16. Whatever your favourite IDE is, having different tools to chose from is good - it promotes improvement, competion and innovation. They all have their strong points and weak points, right. And life would be a bit boring if we all used the same tool !

    So use whatever works best for your current project !

    I think the "what is the best IDE" discussion has been done to death.

    RIP Cafe :-)
  17. an IDE that bought old tools (visual cafe) and failed to improve upon them.

    this product wasn't even as good as vi as an IDE...

    Visual Cafe was great, years ago... those days are over. And now so are the days of the worst IDE vendor.

    sorry to all the webgain employees i hope you do find work soon, and grab what you can on the way out ;)

  18. Eclipse rocks![ Go to top ]

    A vote for Eclipse here. NetBeans is slow(er), period. How can you say it's not? The more I use Eclipse the more I like it. I keep discovering more nicities every day.
  19. Eclipse, Eclipse, Eclipse[ Go to top ]

    For anybody who hasn't used Eclipse yet, now is the time. Eclipse is ace! Eclipse is free!

    I always find it suprising to see people suggesting JBuilder. I used JBduilder for 8 months, and found nothing overly fantstic about it, and was very unimpressed with the level (lack their of) of configurability for EJB... you hit the compile ejb button, and you may get a correct jar out the other end... or not.

  20. Eclipse, Eclipse, Eclipse[ Go to top ]

    I always find it suprising to see people suggesting JBuilder. I used JBduilder for 8 months, and found nothing overly fantstic about it,

    Well, that IS the JBuilder's secret, it is simple and there is nothing overly fantstic about it, sure. BUT it is extremely and overall usefull IDE with much less weak points then others. Try version 7, you can download the trial.

    >> and was very unimpressed with the level (lack their of) of configurability for EJB... you hit the compile ejb button, and you may get a correct jar out the other end... or not.

    I doubt you realy used JBuilder for EJB development. JBuilder has two-way tools (visual AND text editor) for mostly every aspect of Java programming (J2SE, J2EE & J2ME). That means, you have visual tools for designing EJB 2.0 beans and visualy editing EJB deployment descriptors, OR you can switch to source and edit whatever you want manualy (source code or deployment descriptor). Could you be more specific, what do you need do configure that is not in EJB source or DD ?

    The same is with designing user interface with Swing or AWT. And all that without any proprietary code or ugly comments in your source. The only thing you can say against JBuilder is it's price, which is somewhat high for now, but hopefully Borland will realise that and lower the price.

    I money isn't the problem, JBuilder is still the best.

  21. Eclipse, Eclipse, Eclipse[ Go to top ]

    All the IDEs (Netbeans, Eclipse or Jbuilder) are good when you know how to customize and use them.
    As soon as you can integrate your Ant Scripts, CVS management, Struts, JUnit, Log4J, Xdoclet packages, who cares about the built-in functionnalities ?
    We just need an efficient GUI to handle our frameworks (and to make them easy to use for the developpers).
    All those tools can do that: it is just a customization issue.
    2 of those tools are free. 1 is not.
    Then pick the one you prefer. I don't think there's more to say about it, IDE choice among those three is really not an important theme...

  22. Eclipse, Eclipse, Eclipse[ Go to top ]

    Amen to that!! I mean, my company spent thousands on
    visual cafe enterprise suite and I'm still using notepad.

  23. Well I will give Eclipse some time - like 2 more years ;-) to prove its merits.

    Remember the early VAJ ? The features seemed so cool with the Java aware Envy repository and hot swap debugger. Soon enough though they proved to be a source or problems:
    - you could not use up to date JDK,
    - you could not version control half of your source (JSPs and text files),
    - new developers could not effectivelly use the tool without spending 1 week with Readbooks,
    - your developers previously trained on VAJ, had very weird habits regarding version control ("I've a copy that I exported last week") and remote debuging ("System.out works well on our Unix box").

    I learned to appreciate the freedom that more down-to-earth tools give me.

    Eclipse may be 20% better then IDEA or NetBeans, but then again it may be a blind street. I will give it a time to see how SWT will fare and if plugins are keeping up to date.

    My $0.02 Cdn (really much less then $0.02 US)

  24. CASE+Web compose an inmature development process.
    Therefore, the cheaper and easier CASE tool is the best choice(with a set of functionalities similar to those of the leader ones). Will Rational, Together or Telelogic...follow Webgain steps?

    The cheaper alternative to WebGain suite is Sparxs Enterprise Architect.
    Take a look at and try to not become astonished of it´s pricing politics:

  25. but Enterprise Architect generates crappy diagrams (especially complex activity or sequence ones...) and strange (random?) behaviour (copy/paste a class for example).
    The XMI export is not that efficient too...
    Well, when you know Rational and go for enterprise architect, yes it is cheaper, but after 2 days you know why !
    And it is not integrated with the source Refactoring.

    By the way, you can find cheaper than Enterprise Architect, have a look at the open source project ArgoUML (or poseidon in its commercial packaging). But still, it does not match the power of Rational (far from it).
  26. You should try latest version of EA.
    What you say WAS true, but not in latest versions.
    In addition, which CASE tool provides Requirements Management, Project management or Test Planning integrated with UML support?

    EA may have some limitations (others too, even Rose), but it depends on what you are focusing in: methodologis or technical capabilities.
    Although in technical aspects, EA has to improve, on the other hand, brings an extremely good support for methodologies such us RUP, or Métrica V.3
  27. OH NOT AGAIN!!!

    I thought this discussion was about Webgain and not another 'I like this or that IDE' rant.

    Please stop now.
  28. right. You are right.
  29. Rational Rose creates really crappy diagrams compared to Enterprise Architect. The GUI is terrible. EA has an almost perfect IDE compared to Rational Rose.

  30. You are right.
    How log have you benn using EA?
  31. Hi
    Pramati studio is really good
    Really simple to work with.
  32. Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]

  33. JavaCC[ Go to top ]

    Anyone know anything about the status of JavaCC?
  34. What about the status of studio 7?
    It was supposed to be a complete re-write and ready for beta in May.
    The demos looked great.
  35. I'm still using Visual Studio for my Java development. I use ant/jikes to build from within the IDE. I've got JBuilder, Visual Slick, and Idea all on my computer and Dev Studio with a few custom macros blows them all away.
  36. Ant, Xdoclet and UltraEdit, there you have it. :)


  37. Moronic arguments about which IDE is better aside.

    I think the most important thing is to make sure your project is structured (through the use of Ant and other tools) so that it doesn't matter what IDE you use. I use NetBeans to kind of link in to my Ant build file so that I'm not really doing anything specific to NB at all. Yet I still get all the features of NB.

    On the current project, they want to use WebSphere Application Developer. I'm hoping to use it just like NetBeans - as a sort of IDE 'view' onto the project.

    Does anyone have maybe a link to a nice summary of the features of WSAD that will allow me to integrate smoothly with an Ant project?

  38. I'm still trying to get over that someone thinks they are doing Java with VS.

    Anyway WSAD uses Ant. It has an Ant console view.

    Go to for help on WSAD.
  39. Look at Oracle JDeveloper, here's why:

    For current VisualCafe users: plug-in for VisualCafe migrates your projects & files to JDeveloper projects and files, as easy as clicking the menu item.

    JDeveloper has everything you need and more. UML modelling, great debugger, and 4 performance profilers.

    Check it out: JDeveloper
  40. Did I mention that it's only $995!!!
  41. Do you work for Oracle?


    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.