A former employee at WebGain has confirmed that the company is no longer in business. He called the WebGain circus, "How to spend $200 million in 24 months," and claimed that their are still about 8 employee's left who are still selling VisualCafe to customers, even though, "it is not being supported and all engineering has been fired."
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Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business (40 messages)
- Posted by: Floyd Marinescu
- Posted on: July 11 2002 12:39 EDT
Threaded Messages (40)
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Don Stadler on July 11 2002 13:22 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by David Jones on July 11 2002 13:34 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Marc Calello on July 11 2002 02:33 EDT
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Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Dimitri Rakitine on July 11 2002 04:57 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Cameron Purdy on July 12 2002 09:27 EDT
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Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Igor Zavialov on July 11 2002 07:57 EDT
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Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Joe Pardi on July 11 2002 08:45 EDT
- Don´t agree by Edgar Sanchez on July 11 2002 09:01 EDT
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Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Joe Pardi on July 11 2002 08:45 EDT
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Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Saurabh Banerjee on July 11 2002 10:08 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by ankur tade on July 12 2002 12:26 EDT
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A vote for Netbeans by Igor Zavialov on July 12 2002 01:42 EDT
- A vote for Netbeans by Peter English on July 17 2002 02:29 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by David Jones on July 12 2002 01:53 EDT
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Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Web Master on July 16 2002 09:42 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Greg Hall on July 17 2002 04:04 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by David Jones on July 11 2002 13:34 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Jason Poley on July 11 2002 13:54 EDT
- Eclipse rocks! by Scott Hodson on July 12 2002 02:23 EDT
- Eclipse, Eclipse, Eclipse by Daniel Lang on July 12 2002 03:06 EDT
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Eclipse, Eclipse, Eclipse by Mileta Cekovic on July 12 2002 03:33 EDT
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Eclipse, Eclipse, Eclipse by the chenav on July 12 2002 04:23 EDT
- Eclipse, Eclipse, Eclipse by kram sappap on July 12 2002 08:39 EDT
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Eclipse, Eclipse, Eclipse by the chenav on July 12 2002 04:23 EDT
- Eclipse, IBM, I'll give it some time by Michael Szlapa on July 12 2002 10:28 EDT
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Eclipse, Eclipse, Eclipse by Mileta Cekovic on July 12 2002 03:33 EDT
- Eclipse, Eclipse, Eclipse by Daniel Lang on July 12 2002 03:06 EDT
- BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER? by Borja Pe??uelas on July 12 2002 03:35 EDT
- BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER? by the chenav on July 12 2002 04:10 EDT
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BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER? by Borja Pe??uelas on July 12 2002 04:24 EDT
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BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER? by Chris James on July 12 2002 04:29 EDT
- BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER? by Borja Pe??uelas on July 12 2002 04:37 EDT
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BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER? by Chris James on July 12 2002 04:29 EDT
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BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER? by jason priestly on July 12 2002 05:23 EDT
- BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER? by Borja Pe??uelas on July 15 2002 11:00 EDT
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BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER? by Borja Pe??uelas on July 12 2002 04:24 EDT
- BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER? by the chenav on July 12 2002 04:10 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by sez hian on July 12 2002 04:38 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by stu pot on July 12 2002 05:00 EDT
- JavaCC by Figjamjam Figjamjam on July 12 2002 06:55 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Jim Jackson on July 12 2002 10:19 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Robert Johnson on July 13 2002 00:57 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Pee Wee on July 13 2002 02:43 EDT
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Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Shorn Tolley on July 13 2002 11:18 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Mark N on July 15 2002 09:49 EDT
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Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Shorn Tolley on July 13 2002 11:18 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Pee Wee on July 13 2002 02:43 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Eric Johnson on July 19 2002 13:40 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Eric Johnson on July 19 2002 13:44 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Cameron Purdy on July 19 2002 03:55 EDT
- Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business by Eric Johnson on July 19 2002 13:44 EDT
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Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Don Stadler
- Posted on: July 11 2002 13:22 EDT
- in response to Floyd Marinescu
No surprises here.
That very public auction was the death knell. -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: David Jones
- Posted on: July 11 2002 13:34 EDT
- in response to Don Stadler
Hi,
I wonder who BEA will embrace as their IDE of choice now.
My vote is for JBuilder.
David -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Marc Calello
- Posted on: July 11 2002 14:33 EDT
- in response to David Jones
IntelliJ might be a better choice for IDE partner. -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Dimitri Rakitine
- Posted on: July 11 2002 16:57 EDT
- in response to David Jones
<quote>
My vote is for JBuilder.
</quote>
My vote is for eclipse. There might be some political issues though ;-)
--
Dimitri
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Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Cameron Purdy
- Posted on: July 12 2002 09:27 EDT
- in response to Dimitri Rakitine
J++. No, I'm not kidding.
Hopefully I'll get around to finding the latest version of Visual Slick Edit, but until then ....
Peace,
Cameron Purdy
Tangosol, Inc. -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Igor Zavialov
- Posted on: July 11 2002 19:57 EDT
- in response to David Jones
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Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Joe Pardi
- Posted on: July 11 2002 20:45 EDT
- in response to Igor Zavialov
Wonder if Webgain would be willing to put the source code for Visual Cafe and their other products out in the open source community.
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Don´t agree[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Edgar Sanchez
- Posted on: July 11 2002 21:01 EDT
- in response to Joe Pardi
"Wonder if Webgain would be willing to put the source code for Visual Cafe and their other products out in the open source community. "
The Java camp could use some consolidation (in open source as well as in commercial). I think that with the Netbeans-Eclipse split we have enough (my current vote is for Eclipse).
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Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Saurabh Banerjee
- Posted on: July 11 2002 22:08 EDT
- in response to David Jones
NetBeans is very slow. It is no match for JBuilder!
Saurabh -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: ankur tade
- Posted on: July 12 2002 00:26 EDT
- in response to Saurabh Banerjee
I vote for Pramati Studio.It's neatly build,can integrated with weblogic and websphere.
Great Studio....
Ankur -
A vote for Netbeans[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Igor Zavialov
- Posted on: July 12 2002 01:42 EDT
- in response to Saurabh Banerjee
"NetBeans is very slow."
Perhaps you may want to cut down on those espressos and lattes ;-)
Netbeans is anything but slow, my vote is for Netbeans, it's a great IDE.
-- Igor -
A vote for Netbeans[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Peter English
- Posted on: July 17 2002 14:29 EDT
- in response to Igor Zavialov
I think the correct assessment is that Netbeans is slower than JBuilder, but the speed is still more than adequate.
Both are very good products although JBuilder has a better thought out user interface.
I use both and highly reccommend either. If you have the $$$ to burn, get JBuilder. If not, Netbeans should be fine.
Sun has an IDE called Forte for Java which is built on top of Netbeans. The price is more reasonable and makes more sense than JBuilder. I highly reccommend that one too. Download it and take it for a test drive. -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: David Jones
- Posted on: July 12 2002 13:53 EDT
- in response to David Jones
Hi,
I think BEA will switch to Borlands JBuilder as their prefered IDE because the two companies have recently started to have closer links.
It is also possible that BEA may behind the Eclipse or Netbeans projects. However BEA supporting Eclipse is less likely though due to Eclipses connection with IBM.
I didn't mean this to get into a war of whose got the best IDE but more of a discussion of who will BEA will support in this area. BEA may at the end of the day choose to back no IDE after getting its hands so badly burnt with Visual Cafe.
Off couse at the end of it all the loss of Webgain is a major blow to BEA in its battle with IBM to provide the best end to end solution in the J2EE environment.
David
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Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Web Master
- Posted on: July 16 2002 09:42 EDT
- in response to David Jones
EMACS/JDEE gets my vote. -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Greg Hall
- Posted on: July 17 2002 04:04 EDT
- in response to Web Master
Whatever your favourite IDE is, having different tools to chose from is good - it promotes improvement, competion and innovation. They all have their strong points and weak points, right. And life would be a bit boring if we all used the same tool !
So use whatever works best for your current project !
I think the "what is the best IDE" discussion has been done to death.
RIP Cafe :-) -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Jason Poley
- Posted on: July 11 2002 13:54 EDT
- in response to Floyd Marinescu
an IDE that bought old tools (visual cafe) and failed to improve upon them.
this product wasn't even as good as vi as an IDE...
Visual Cafe was great, years ago... those days are over. And now so are the days of the worst IDE vendor.
sorry to all the webgain employees i hope you do find work soon, and grab what you can on the way out ;)
-j -
Eclipse rocks![ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Scott Hodson
- Posted on: July 12 2002 02:23 EDT
- in response to Floyd Marinescu
A vote for Eclipse here. NetBeans is slow(er), period. How can you say it's not? The more I use Eclipse the more I like it. I keep discovering more nicities every day. -
Eclipse, Eclipse, Eclipse[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Daniel Lang
- Posted on: July 12 2002 03:06 EDT
- in response to Scott Hodson
For anybody who hasn't used Eclipse yet, now is the time. Eclipse is ace! Eclipse is free!
I always find it suprising to see people suggesting JBuilder. I used JBduilder for 8 months, and found nothing overly fantstic about it, and was very unimpressed with the level (lack their of) of configurability for EJB... you hit the compile ejb button, and you may get a correct jar out the other end... or not.
Daniel. -
Eclipse, Eclipse, Eclipse[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Mileta Cekovic
- Posted on: July 12 2002 03:33 EDT
- in response to Daniel Lang
I always find it suprising to see people suggesting JBuilder. I used JBduilder for 8 months, and found nothing overly fantstic about it,
Well, that IS the JBuilder's secret, it is simple and there is nothing overly fantstic about it, sure. BUT it is extremely and overall usefull IDE with much less weak points then others. Try version 7, you can download the trial.
>> and was very unimpressed with the level (lack their of) of configurability for EJB... you hit the compile ejb button, and you may get a correct jar out the other end... or not.
I doubt you realy used JBuilder for EJB development. JBuilder has two-way tools (visual AND text editor) for mostly every aspect of Java programming (J2SE, J2EE & J2ME). That means, you have visual tools for designing EJB 2.0 beans and visualy editing EJB deployment descriptors, OR you can switch to source and edit whatever you want manualy (source code or deployment descriptor). Could you be more specific, what do you need do configure that is not in EJB source or DD ?
The same is with designing user interface with Swing or AWT. And all that without any proprietary code or ugly comments in your source. The only thing you can say against JBuilder is it's price, which is somewhat high for now, but hopefully Borland will realise that and lower the price.
I money isn't the problem, JBuilder is still the best.
Regards,
Mileta -
Eclipse, Eclipse, Eclipse[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: the chenav
- Posted on: July 12 2002 04:23 EDT
- in response to Mileta Cekovic
Whatever...
All the IDEs (Netbeans, Eclipse or Jbuilder) are good when you know how to customize and use them.
As soon as you can integrate your Ant Scripts, CVS management, Struts, JUnit, Log4J, Xdoclet packages, who cares about the built-in functionnalities ?
We just need an efficient GUI to handle our frameworks (and to make them easy to use for the developpers).
All those tools can do that: it is just a customization issue.
2 of those tools are free. 1 is not.
Then pick the one you prefer. I don't think there's more to say about it, IDE choice among those three is really not an important theme...
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Eclipse, Eclipse, Eclipse[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: kram sappap
- Posted on: July 12 2002 08:39 EDT
- in response to the chenav
Amen to that!! I mean, my company spent thousands on
visual cafe enterprise suite and I'm still using notepad. -
Eclipse, IBM, I'll give it some time[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Michael Szlapa
- Posted on: July 12 2002 10:28 EDT
- in response to Daniel Lang
Well I will give Eclipse some time - like 2 more years ;-) to prove its merits.
Remember the early VAJ ? The features seemed so cool with the Java aware Envy repository and hot swap debugger. Soon enough though they proved to be a source or problems:
- you could not use up to date JDK,
- you could not version control half of your source (JSPs and text files),
- new developers could not effectivelly use the tool without spending 1 week with Readbooks,
- your developers previously trained on VAJ, had very weird habits regarding version control ("I've a copy that I exported last week") and remote debuging ("System.out works well on our Unix box").
I learned to appreciate the freedom that more down-to-earth tools give me.
Eclipse may be 20% better then IDEA or NetBeans, but then again it may be a blind street. I will give it a time to see how SWT will fare and if plugins are keeping up to date.
My $0.02 Cdn (really much less then $0.02 US)
Michael
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BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER?[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Borja Pe??uelas
- Posted on: July 12 2002 03:35 EDT
- in response to Floyd Marinescu
CASE+Web compose an inmature development process.
Therefore, the cheaper and easier CASE tool is the best choice(with a set of functionalities similar to those of the leader ones). Will Rational, Together or Telelogic...follow Webgain steps?
The cheaper alternative to WebGain suite is Sparxs Enterprise Architect.
Take a look at www.sparxsystems.com.au and try to not become astonished of it´s pricing politics:
ABOUT 5% OF THE PRICE OF IT´S COMPETITORS!
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BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER?[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: the chenav
- Posted on: July 12 2002 04:10 EDT
- in response to Borja Pe??uelas
but Enterprise Architect generates crappy diagrams (especially complex activity or sequence ones...) and strange (random?) behaviour (copy/paste a class for example).
The XMI export is not that efficient too...
Well, when you know Rational and go for enterprise architect, yes it is cheaper, but after 2 days you know why !
And it is not integrated with the source Refactoring.
By the way, you can find cheaper than Enterprise Architect, have a look at the open source project ArgoUML (or poseidon in its commercial packaging). But still, it does not match the power of Rational (far from it).
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BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER?[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Borja Pe??uelas
- Posted on: July 12 2002 04:24 EDT
- in response to the chenav
You should try latest version of EA.
What you say WAS true, but not in latest versions.
In addition, which CASE tool provides Requirements Management, Project management or Test Planning integrated with UML support?
EA may have some limitations (others too, even Rose), but it depends on what you are focusing in: methodologis or technical capabilities.
Although in technical aspects, EA has to improve, on the other hand, brings an extremely good support for methodologies such us RUP, or Métrica V.3 -
BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER?[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Chris James
- Posted on: July 12 2002 04:29 EDT
- in response to Borja Pe??uelas
OH NOT AGAIN!!!
I thought this discussion was about Webgain and not another 'I like this or that IDE' rant.
Please stop now.
Aghh!! -
BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER?[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Borja Pe??uelas
- Posted on: July 12 2002 04:37 EDT
- in response to Chris James
right. You are right. -
BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER?[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: jason priestly
- Posted on: July 12 2002 17:23 EDT
- in response to the chenav
Rational Rose creates really crappy diagrams compared to Enterprise Architect. The GUI is terrible. EA has an almost perfect IDE compared to Rational Rose.
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BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BETTER&CHEAPER?[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Borja Pe??uelas
- Posted on: July 15 2002 11:00 EDT
- in response to jason priestly
You are right.
How log have you benn using EA? -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: sez hian
- Posted on: July 12 2002 04:38 EDT
- in response to Floyd Marinescu
Hi
Pramati studio is really good
Really simple to work with. -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: stu pot
- Posted on: July 12 2002 05:00 EDT
- in response to sez hian
jEdit
www.jedit.org -
JavaCC[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Figjamjam Figjamjam
- Posted on: July 12 2002 06:55 EDT
- in response to Floyd Marinescu
Anyone know anything about the status of JavaCC? -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Jim Jackson
- Posted on: July 12 2002 10:19 EDT
- in response to Floyd Marinescu
What about the status of studio 7?
It was supposed to be a complete re-write and ready for beta in May.
The demos looked great. -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Robert Johnson
- Posted on: July 13 2002 00:57 EDT
- in response to Floyd Marinescu
I'm still using Visual Studio for my Java development. I use ant/jikes to build from within the IDE. I've got JBuilder, Visual Slick, and Idea all on my computer and Dev Studio with a few custom macros blows them all away. -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Pee Wee
- Posted on: July 13 2002 02:43 EDT
- in response to Robert Johnson
Ant, Xdoclet and UltraEdit, there you have it. :)
/Weasel -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Shorn Tolley
- Posted on: July 13 2002 23:18 EDT
- in response to Pee Wee
Moronic arguments about which IDE is better aside.
I think the most important thing is to make sure your project is structured (through the use of Ant and other tools) so that it doesn't matter what IDE you use. I use NetBeans to kind of link in to my Ant build file so that I'm not really doing anything specific to NB at all. Yet I still get all the features of NB.
On the current project, they want to use WebSphere Application Developer. I'm hoping to use it just like NetBeans - as a sort of IDE 'view' onto the project.
Does anyone have maybe a link to a nice summary of the features of WSAD that will allow me to integrate smoothly with an Ant project?
Cheers,
Shorn. -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Mark N
- Posted on: July 15 2002 09:49 EDT
- in response to Shorn Tolley
I'm still trying to get over that someone thinks they are doing Java with VS.
Anyway WSAD uses Ant. It has an Ant console view.
Go to http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/ for help on WSAD. -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Eric Johnson
- Posted on: July 19 2002 13:40 EDT
- in response to Floyd Marinescu
Look at Oracle JDeveloper, here's why:
For current VisualCafe users: plug-in for VisualCafe migrates your projects & files to JDeveloper projects and files, as easy as clicking the menu item.
JDeveloper has everything you need and more. UML modelling, great debugger, and 4 performance profilers.
Check it out: JDeveloper -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Eric Johnson
- Posted on: July 19 2002 13:44 EDT
- in response to Eric Johnson
Did I mention that it's only $995!!! -
Former Employee: WebGain Out Of Business[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Cameron Purdy
- Posted on: July 19 2002 15:55 EDT
- in response to Eric Johnson