Macromedia is de-emphasizing and may be planning to drop or sell off JRun Application Server. It has been reported that most of the JRun team in Newton, MA, have been laid off.
"It is no longer a strategically important product, but there is a strong OEM customer base which generates a low cost revenue stream, so I'd be surprised to see the business get sold anytime soon," the source said.
Editors Update: Aug 7th, 8am PST
However, Macromedia later called TSS and told us that the rumour is false and was started by two guys who are disgruntled with Macromedia and put the news on OSDN.
Read Signs point to Macromedia dropping JRun from product line
What should happen to JRun? Has anyone heard more about this?
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False Rumour: Macromedia dropping JRun from product line? (32 messages)
- Posted by: Dion Almaer
- Posted on: August 06 2003 12:46 EDT
Threaded Messages (32)
- Macromedia dropping JRun from product line? by Jordan Zimmerman on August 06 2003 13:29 EDT
- Maybe that was the problem... by John Dale on August 06 2003 13:49 EDT
- Not surprising by Grant Zemont on August 06 2003 14:08 EDT
- resin by Chad Williams on August 06 2003 15:57 EDT
- Resin is not a full app-server by Arne Vajh??j on August 07 2003 07:37 EDT
- Resin is not a full app-server by Chad Williams on August 07 2003 11:27 EDT
- Resin is not a full app-server by Arne Vajh??j on August 07 2003 07:37 EDT
- Take a Look at the Facts by Christian Cantrell on August 06 2003 17:34 EDT
- What's your point? by CJ Preimesberger on August 07 2003 13:35 EDT
- Jrun now Bundled with ColdFusion by Jeff Herrin on August 06 2003 19:01 EDT
- Dion by Vic Cekvenich on August 06 2003 19:13 EDT
- Dion by Michael Thomas on August 07 2003 08:56 EDT
- Smell anything you like ... by CJ Preimesberger on August 07 2003 13:37 EDT
- If Macromedia does not sell off the JRun by jack xie on August 06 2003 19:30 EDT
- Re: If Macromedia does not sell off the JRun by Stephane Croisier on August 07 2003 04:03 EDT
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God I hope not by Max Kington on August 07 2003 05:01 EDT
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Re: God I hope not by Mike Dunbar on August 07 2003 09:24 EDT
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Re: God I hope not by Max Kington on August 07 2003 10:08 EDT
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J2EE Server Clustering by Mike Dunbar on August 07 2003 10:27 EDT
- J2EE Server Clustering by Cameron Purdy on August 07 2003 10:54 EDT
- J2EE Server Clustering by T Q on August 08 2003 01:01 EDT
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J2EE Server Clustering by Mike Dunbar on August 07 2003 10:27 EDT
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Re: God I hope not by Max Kington on August 07 2003 10:08 EDT
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Re: God I hope not by Mike Dunbar on August 07 2003 09:24 EDT
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God I hope not by Max Kington on August 07 2003 05:01 EDT
- Re: If Macromedia does not sell off the JRun by Stephane Croisier on August 07 2003 04:03 EDT
- Benign Neglect by John Bigboote on August 07 2003 12:40 EDT
- False Rumour: Macromedia dropping JRun from product line? by Ryan Breidenbach on August 07 2003 14:14 EDT
- Aside to Mr. Almaer and Mr. Marinescu ... by CJ Preimesberger on August 07 2003 14:19 EDT
- That Sam ... by Cameron Purdy on August 07 2003 14:54 EDT
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JRun Support/Development Recently Very Good by Luke Samaha on August 07 2003 03:30 EDT
- Macromedia Support by Nick Sanderson on August 07 2003 04:59 EDT
- Cameron, your one of my favorite posters by Pete Haidinyak on August 08 2003 10:32 EDT
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JRun Support/Development Recently Very Good by Luke Samaha on August 07 2003 03:30 EDT
- Aside to Mr. Almaer and Mr. Marinescu ... by Floyd Marinescu on August 08 2003 02:11 EDT
- That Sam ... by Cameron Purdy on August 07 2003 14:54 EDT
- False Rumour: Macromedia dropping JRun from product line? by Mike Perham on August 08 2003 14:03 EDT
- False Rumour: Macromedia dropping JRun from product line? by George Jiang on August 09 2003 08:04 EDT
- only 3 real players now by Hans Helmut on August 09 2003 10:52 EDT
- only 3 real players now by Vic Cekvenich on August 18 2003 13:02 EDT
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Macromedia dropping JRun from product line?[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Jordan Zimmerman
- Posted on: August 06 2003 13:29 EDT
- in response to Dion Almaer
What's most surprising is that most of the team has been laid off. I can understand getting out of the app server market. But, isn't Cold Fusion now a Java-based product? I'd assumed that it uses some/most parts of JRun for its runtime. Maybe not... -
Maybe that was the problem...[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: John Dale
- Posted on: August 06 2003 13:49 EDT
- in response to Jordan Zimmerman
I smell political poopy.
Best,
John C. Dale -
Not surprising[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Grant Zemont
- Posted on: August 06 2003 14:08 EDT
- in response to Dion Almaer
This is not much of a shock. When most people think Macromedia, they still think Flash and Director. They dont think app servers, J2EE compliance, and the like. Not that it's a sole indicator of product seriousness and corporate direction, but I wonder how many JSR's Macromedia participates in? -
resin[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Chad Williams
- Posted on: August 06 2003 15:57 EDT
- in response to Dion Almaer
No problem - Resin works nicely. -
Resin is not a full app-server[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Arne Vajh??j
- Posted on: August 07 2003 07:37 EDT
- in response to Chad Williams
Resin is just a JSP/servlet container (with som EJB stuff in the EE version).
But they ar enot and do not claim to be afull J2EE app-server. -
Resin is not a full app-server[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Chad Williams
- Posted on: August 07 2003 23:27 EDT
- in response to Arne Vajh??j
Most (all actually) JRun deployments I've seen are using it as a servlet engine mainly. Those interested in EJB typically go high-end (BEA/IBM) or open source.
Not that I don't like JRun - its really nice and hopefully MM sells it to someone who will maintain it. -
Take a Look at the Facts[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Christian Cantrell
- Posted on: August 06 2003 17:34 EDT
- in response to Dion Almaer
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What's your point?[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: CJ Preimesberger
- Posted on: August 07 2003 13:35 EDT
- in response to Christian Cantrell
Just renewing the license has no correlation with whether Macromedia is going to continue to invest R&D in JRun. -
Jrun now Bundled with ColdFusion[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Jeff Herrin
- Posted on: August 06 2003 19:01 EDT
- in response to Dion Almaer
The new COld Fusion MX 6.1 released earlier this week comes with a full version of JRun built into it. It lets you run CF Pro in a J2EE container without having to purchase a separate J2EE app server. I think this is a sign that they're still committed to the product. -
Dion[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Vic Cekvenich
- Posted on: August 06 2003 19:13 EDT
- in response to Dion Almaer
Dion, this smells like BS.
.V -
Dion[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Michael Thomas
- Posted on: August 07 2003 08:56 EDT
- in response to Vic Cekvenich
Dion, this smells like BS.
> .V
Yep, check news article on Macromedia.com: http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/proom/pr/2003/j2ee_license.html -
Smell anything you like ...[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: CJ Preimesberger
- Posted on: August 07 2003 13:37 EDT
- in response to Vic Cekvenich
... but I never write stories that aren't substantiated. -
If Macromedia does not sell off the JRun[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: jack xie
- Posted on: August 06 2003 19:30 EDT
- in response to Dion Almaer
In the "article",
"it could go in one of three directions ..."
Sure, or they can release it open source. A la Netscape or SAP DB -
Re: If Macromedia does not sell off the JRun[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Stephane Croisier
- Posted on: August 07 2003 04:03 EDT
- in response to jack xie
Yes, and why not under an Apache license, so this will put some foundations to the new Geronimo project ;-) They already have a full certified J2EE stack, no?
Stéphane -
God I hope not[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Max Kington
- Posted on: August 07 2003 05:01 EDT
- in response to Stephane Croisier
I'm expecting great things from the Apache J2EE project, lets not add Jrun stack components. Speaking from experiance running clustered Jrun it's been one hassle after the other. -
Re: God I hope not[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Mike Dunbar
- Posted on: August 07 2003 09:24 EDT
- in response to Max Kington
...Speaking from experiance running clustered Jrun it's been one hassle after the other.
Is this version 4.0 (or later) that uses Jini for clustering? -
Re: God I hope not[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Max Kington
- Posted on: August 07 2003 10:08 EDT
- in response to Mike Dunbar
Yup, we've given up to be honest, we're replacing it with WLS 8.1 very shortly. It's CMP engine isn't so bad but JMS, management and clustering is, it's just all very tempremental. Not to mention the magic numbers in their apache modules. Both for 1.3 and 2.0.x required specific builds to execute correctly without core dumping. The other thing about Jini is that it can interfere with other Jini services. I also like to have more options with regards to clustering than an insecure broadcast discussion of all my core server data. WLS 8.1 is really flying at the moment, and I've been most pleased with it's clustering stability. -
J2EE Server Clustering[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Mike Dunbar
- Posted on: August 07 2003 10:27 EDT
- in response to Max Kington
Anyone Know - Is it true that you have to use to cookies to cluster WLS 7? I just joined a team where we can't use cookies, and word has it that we therefore can't cluster our WLS instances for session replication/failover. I will also post this on discussions board, but since we are on this topic...
Thanks,
Mike -
J2EE Server Clustering[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Cameron Purdy
- Posted on: August 07 2003 10:54 EDT
- in response to Mike Dunbar
Mike: Anyone Know - Is it true that you have to use to cookies to cluster WLS 7? I just joined a team where we can't use cookies, and word has it that we therefore can't cluster our WLS instances for session replication/failover. I will also post this on discussions board, but since we are on this topic...
You can use URL encoding. It's part of the Servlet spec and it's supported by WebLogic (and jRun too AFAIK).
Peace,
Cameron Purdy
Tangosol, Inc.
Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster! -
J2EE Server Clustering[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: T Q
- Posted on: August 08 2003 13:01 EDT
- in response to Mike Dunbar
You still have JOB? :)). -
Benign Neglect[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: John Bigboote
- Posted on: August 07 2003 12:40 EDT
- in response to Dion Almaer
The usual Macromedia behavior in cases like this is that no comment is made until an official announcement is released, citing as a reason that to do otherwise would open them up to shareholder lawsuits. Poppycock.
They'll never admit that JRun is doomed until the end is near. In the meantime, they'll exercise benign neglect by firing/reassigning associated staff, limiting or eliminating future development and basically put the product on life support. Only through vociferous activism can any reprieve be possible, as in the case of the HomeSite HTML authoring tool.
With the recogition that Cold Fusion MX is truly an elaborate JSP custom tag library that could be deployed on any J2EE app server, and the apparent move toward a servlet container-only solution in project Red Sky, Macromedia could get out of the app server business altogether by dropping JRun and developing CFMX as a product deployable on Tomcat, Resin, Jetty, WebLogic, Websphere, SunONE, JBoss, Geronimo, etc.
But, they'll never admit it, leaving their customers twisting in the wind.
J -
False Rumour: Macromedia dropping JRun from product line?[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Ryan Breidenbach
- Posted on: August 07 2003 14:14 EDT
- in response to Dion Almaer
I actually heard this rumor at a "No Fluff Just Stuff" symposium last fall. IIRC, James Duncan Davidson eluded to this. Maybe there is some truth to this. Hmmmmmm.
Ryan -
Aside to Mr. Almaer and Mr. Marinescu ...[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: CJ Preimesberger
- Posted on: August 07 2003 14:19 EDT
- in response to Dion Almaer
Hi, gentlemen:
I was amused and a bit surprised by The ServerSide's immediate branding of a story I wrote with my colleague, Matt Liotta, as a "False Rumour." I would like to state for the record a few things.
The story "Signs Point to Macromedia Dropping JRun from Product Line" is absolutely airtight, and we have all the documentation to prove it. A reputable publisher such as OSDN would not run it otherwise. As a journalist with more than 25 years' experience in the field, I would never run a story without authentication.
We spent more than six weeks on this story and gave Macromedia every opportunity to tell us whether or not it plans to upgrade JRun when J2EE 1.4 is released. They refused; all they had to say was "yes." We published straight comments from several key Macromedia employees in the story. We believe it is a fair and balanced news story that allows the reader to decide for him/herself what Macromedia is really planning to do with this product, which is so widely used in the industry.
Finally, I am not at all disgruntled with Macromedia. It is a fine company--I use its products myself. We were tipped off about this story; we in no way went looking for it. I would have written this kind of story about any company in the world. We believed that it does a service to all those JRun developers who will not hear about this until it is too late.
My real concern, as one journalist to another, is this: Are you going to believe what Macromedia tells you, every time they tell you something, just because they're Macromedia? Do you believe everything Microsoft tells you?
Chris J. Preimesberger
Senior Contributing Editor, DevX.com
Contributing Writer, C/net Networks, Inc.
Analyst, Evans Data Corp.
Columnist, Mobility Magazine
"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything."
--Mark Twain -
That Sam ...[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Cameron Purdy
- Posted on: August 07 2003 14:54 EDT
- in response to CJ Preimesberger
"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything."
--Mark Twain
Yes, but he also said:
Truth is the most valuable thing we have. Let us economize it.
--Mark Twain
;-)
Peace,
Cameron Purdy
Tangosol, Inc.
Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster! -
JRun Support/Development Recently Very Good[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Luke Samaha
- Posted on: August 07 2003 15:30 EDT
- in response to Cameron Purdy
Posted a reproducible product issue to Macromedia support last week (incident #4204407). Their development team was extremely helpful and already released a fix (64667). If that's pulling out support, I'd have to say they've been just as responsive as the Allaire brothers were with us 5 years ago.
I admit there was no way to tell the story was probably a hoax. But, reading back over some of the comments on this discussion seems to show everyone's just looking for an opportunity to toot the horn for their "pet" product when some guy claims another has fallen (or is falling) down. That goes a long way to explain why an otherwise very bright group of people in the development community have the potential to make some really fickle product choices. Kind of sad really. -
Macromedia Support[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Nick Sanderson
- Posted on: August 07 2003 16:59 EDT
- in response to Luke Samaha
Hi
We use JRun4 for a couple of applications and they recently created a patch for us to correct classloading issues in ear files on unix and linux. Generally my experience with JRun 4 has been very good and the support very prompt and helpful.
Nick Sanderson -
Cameron, your one of my favorite posters[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Pete Haidinyak
- Posted on: August 08 2003 10:32 EDT
- in response to Cameron Purdy
"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything."
LOL
-Pete
> --Mark Twain
>
> Yes, but he also said:
>
> Truth is the most valuable thing we have. Let us economize it.
> --Mark Twain
>
> ;-)
>
> Peace,
>
> Cameron Purdy
> Tangosol, Inc.
> Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster! -
Aside to Mr. Almaer and Mr. Marinescu ...[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Floyd Marinescu
- Posted on: August 08 2003 02:11 EDT
- in response to CJ Preimesberger
Chris,
I think our actions in this case are neither proving nor disproving the truth or falseness of this issue. We simply reported the facts that Macromedia told us and attributed it to them.
You'll note that in the title of the thread has a question mark in it. So we leave it up to the reader to decide what to believe.
Floyd -
False Rumour: Macromedia dropping JRun from product line?[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Mike Perham
- Posted on: August 08 2003 14:03 EDT
- in response to Dion Almaer
It's simple enough to determine who's telling the truth here. We just need to confirm whether or not the JRun development team members were laid off. If any of them are reading this thread, please speak up! -
False Rumour: Macromedia dropping JRun from product line?[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: George Jiang
- Posted on: August 09 2003 08:04 EDT
- in response to Mike Perham
Maybe a condition of their redundancy package is that they can not do any damage to their former employer such as disclose their redundancy to the public or company's customer. -
only 3 real players now[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Hans Helmut
- Posted on: August 09 2003 10:52 EDT
- in response to Dion Almaer
Seems to me we will be seeing more of this as time goes by. There's really only 3 players. BEA, IBM, and JBoss.
Hans -
only 3 real players now[ Go to top ]
- Posted by: Vic Cekvenich
- Posted on: August 18 2003 13:02 EDT
- in response to Hans Helmut
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/04/10/java_servlet_engines.html
3 players now have 75% of J2EE market share.
IBM, Tomcat (must use DAO/JNDI) and Resin.
Other studies are of marketing and what people tried to develop.
.V