As you all know by now, we've changed the names of the Java platforms. There will be no more "J2EE". The full name of the platform is "Java Platform, Enterprise Edition", abbreviated "Java EE". The next release will be "Java EE 5".

People seem to have picked up on the fact that we've dropped the "2" from the name of the platform. Unfortunately, that means I'm starting to see lots of uses of "JEE". There is no "JEE". It's "Java EE".

One of the big reasons we changed the names of the platforms is because we wanted to emphasize that they're all "Java". The old names of "J2EE, "J2SE", and "J2ME" don't do that. Java is what's important to us. Java is why we're here. Java is the value we share. We need to make that clear to the world by talking about "Java EE".

Thanks.

P.S. Note that we haven't retroactively changed the names of existing releases. "J2EE 1.4" is still "J2EE 1.4".

Editors Note: Bill Shannon is the Java EE Spec Lead.

"Java Platform, Enterprise Edition"

+1

Truncate EJB to EJ, the way AOP became AO.

God! Hani will have a field day with this.

IMHO, "Enterprise Java" rolls out a lot more easily than "Java EE". No to mention that I'm just waiting for the Ed Wood-esque anti-heroine screaming "Java EEeeeeeee!"

"Enterprise Java" sounds much better.

EJB or EJO (Enterprise Java Object):) ? ... are really EJB(Enterprise Java Beans)'s JavaBeans? ...aren't they business components, or distributed objects, or trnasactional objects or POJO's (ejb 3.0) for that matter? Keep in mind that from JSR 220 hey all are anotated POJO's which are quite far from JavaBeans concept.

Truncate EJB to EJ, the way AOP became AO. God! Hani will have a field day with this.IMHO, "Enterprise Java" rolls out a lot more easily than "Java EE".

Great idea. The best brand names are the simplest and easiest to remember. Enterprise Java already has 7 years use (look at TSS' tagline) and is easy to understand. Not that Sun is considering changing the names at this point, but I'd vote for:

Enterprise Java
Micro Java

I don't think Java SE needs a name, that can just be "Java".

Floyd

Not that Sun is considering changing the names at this point, but I'd vote for:
Enterprise Java
Micro Java

+1

How about nick names
JME ~ Jimme
JSE ~ Jisse
JEE ~ G

Truncate EJB to EJ, the way AOP became AO. God! Hani will have a field day with this.IMHO, "Enterprise Java" rolls out a lot more easily than "Java EE".

Great idea. The best brand names are the simplest and easiest to remember. Enterprise Java already has 7 years use (look at TSS' tagline) and is easy to understand. Not that Sun is considering changing the names at this point, but I'd vote for:

Enterprise Java
Micro Java

I don't think Java SE needs a name, that can just be "Java".Floyd

How about ?

    Standard Java
    Enterprise Java
    Mobile Java

I actually bemoan the lose of the numeric. By this is really
Sun's fault because it got the naming of the JDK edition
in the name of the specification.

I think we all assumed that there would be Java Platform 3 or better, as J3EE. They have just confused the **** of
everyone last year but increasing the version of Java 1.5 to Java 4. So what the hell? Was the original design in the
labs going to be "J5EE" then?

Peter

Sun has a fancy for changing names. Starting from iPlanet the application server for example has changed name atleast four times (and counting). Really intresting to understand what goes on in Sun for them to think that these small changes in names are of any real relevance to the community. In J2EE (sorry JavaEE space) I have not seen any great innovation from Sun recently as much as we have seen in open source. Hibernate, Spring, Geronimos GBean architecture all come to mind. Any equivalent good innovation from Sun recently ? Names are less important. Technology useful to masses is.

If Sun were more interested in being a software company, it would focus on software that it could sell (as opposed to give away) and worry less about naming.

This naming thing is an external effect of the article in Red Herring:

http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=12587&hed=Sun+Micro+Feels+the+Heat&sector=Profiles&subsector=Companies

what these projects have in common. Without Java, where are we at?

, open-sourced; Like Linux/Unix. That's where I think we should be.

If Sun let Java go, then there would be innovation. Right now what they have is more of benevolent dictatorship. Just my $.02.

, open-sourced; Like Linux/Unix. That's where I think we should be.If Sun let Java go, then there would be innovation. Right now what they have is more of benevolent dictatorship. Just my $.02.

Not. For every 'Hibernate' open source project there are how many failed open source projects. Source Forge has over 100,000 registered project. Are they all to the same caliber as Hibernate? BTW, I thought there were some open source Java projects now?

-Pete

This note makes it sound like
1. people care about the names
2. it makes any difference
3. sun marketing teams have their heads firmly implanted in their asses.

What's the difference between Java EE and JEE. Why is it seems to be a big deal?

All this naming discussion makes me wonder what if the original name "Oak" were not taken? The names would have been O2SE, O2EE and O2ME. There would have been Oak vs. discussions all over the web. There would have been websites like www.oakworld.com, www.oaklobby.com etc. The names would have been changed to Oak EE, the original post would have read "remember, we are Oak at the core!"

Sounds funny!!

What's the difference between Java EE and JEE. Why is it seems to be a big deal?

The word Java. This is no different than how Microsoft years ago made sure "Windows" and/or "Microsoft" was in ever product name. It wasn't "NT", it was "Windows NT". It's not "CE", it's "Windows CE". "Office " becomes "Microsoft Office". Quick, what is "Excel" called? "Microsoft Office Excel".

Just be thankful that unlike Microsoft, Sun is leaving their name out of it - no Sun Java EE.

Personally they should of done this a long time ago as I know alot of people who have no clue what "J2ME" or J2SE" stands for.

Personally they should of done this a long time ago as I know alot of people who have no clue what "J2ME" or J2SE" stands for.

Guess what? A lot of people don't know what the hell Java is anymore, either. That's because last year Sun was publically promoting a product line that they called the Java Desktop System.

Java Desktop System. Great name. Oh, except for the fact that there is no Java in it.

Nobody in Sun is in a position to lecture us on the importance of the Java brand name. They have done more than anyone to dilute it.

Was it only a year ago that Sun was ordering us to refer to their newest software as Java 2 Platform, Standard Edition, Version 1.5? I'm glad that we all complied with that one.

Oh, wait, we didn't. We ignored them and referred to it as JDK5 or whatever made sense, because frankly we were a little more interested in trying to get work done.

Unfortunately, that means I'm starting to see lots of uses of "JEE". There is no "JEE". It's "Java EE".

Yup, and it's Java 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition, Version 1.4. Your preferences have been noted, Bill. Now try not to get too pedantic with your users, or we may all decide to start calling you 'William'.

Java Desktop System. Great name. Oh, except for the fact that there is no Java in it.

Apart from:

Java 2 Standard Edition (J2SE) v1.4.2_04, including the Java SDK, Sun Java Studio Standard 5 update 1 Technology Preview, NetBeans IDE Version 3.6, Star Office (with Java integration), Mozilla (with Java integration), the Java Media Framework, Java Web Start, Java SUS.

A lot of people don't know what the hell Java is anymore, either. That's because last year Sun was publically promoting a product line that they called the Java Desktop System.Java Desktop System. Great name. Oh, except for the fact that there is no Java in it.Nobody in Sun is in a position to lecture us on the importance of the Java brand name. They have done more than anyone to dilute it.

Well said Corby. Taking the brand Java and making it mean Sun's appserver stack (Java Enterprise System) and other completely unrelated names was a reckless mis-use of the brand name. However, I am sure that all the folks in Sun engineering (especially Bill) were horrified of this, but I don't think it was not under their control.

Speaking of brand dilution, maybe we should called it JEMS. :)

Floyd

A lot of people don't know what the hell Java is anymore, either. That's because last year Sun was publically promoting a product line that they called the Java Desktop System.Java Desktop System. Great name. Oh, except for the fact that there is no Java in it.Nobody in Sun is in a position to lecture us on the importance of the Java brand name. They have done more than anyone to dilute it.

Well said Corby. Taking the brand Java and making it mean Sun's appserver stack (Java Enterprise System) and other completely unrelated names was a reckless mis-use of the brand name.

I agree it was a mistake and confusing, but to say that 'there is no Java in it' is simply false. My impression is that it was designed to provide a workstation environment in which a decent JRE and JDK (and associated tools) would be guaranteed. It would have been better to have called it something like 'Java-Enabled Desktop'. 'Java Desktop' implied that the whole thing was based on Java, and was misleading.

My impression is that it was designed to provide a workstation environment in which a decent JRE and JDK (and associated tools) would be guaranteed.

By your contention PCs sold by all top manufacturers should be Java Desktops, because Sun has entered in an agreement during 2003 JavaOne(I think) to have latest JDK installed on them when they are shipped. There is no need to parrot the official part line as Sun has enough PR budget to take care of it. Steve you seem to have taken up the job of Suns spokesman on TSS. But since you always support the official part line I have few points to make.
Sun is always good when it innovates not when it follows. That is the reason in spite of naming their application server alpha,beta,gama etc it has not taken off (to support my contention what’s in a name”). Now for all failed commercial products there is a new venue called open source. So Sun comes up with Glassfish. Now why would I want to contribute to it ? Just because Sun says” Ok guys we couldn’t make it happen so we open sourced it now you all come in hordes develop software for us and later may be we can sell it back to you if it successful”. Bill Roths posting shows Sun’s predicament. What is it trying to achieve by open sourcing – Help the community or help its falling revenues.
If it is former then Sun has to help successful open source products instead of coming with “me too” products. Sun can use its resources to innovate in other areas which are under served. Granted we can’t all trust JBoss (they called it yesterday open source, today “professional” open source and they are sending feelers that open source is not viable for tomorrow), but Geronimo is the other alternative which can flourish if Sun has community interest . Another classic example is Eclipse. Suns continued pouring in money on Netbeans neither helps community nor Sun. It is time Sun stops being egotistical and trying to make failed products successful and instead start innovating. That’s where Suns strength is and by the way it helps community and also Suns bottom line. Sun should support successful Apache style license open source products and also start innovating in other areas – Forget app server and IDE the war is lost and it is time to move on.

By your contention PCs sold by all top manufacturers should be Java Desktops, because Sun has entered in an agreement during 2003 JavaOne(I think) to have latest JDK installed on them when they are shipped.

No, because Java Desktop includes development tools - these platforms include only the JRE. There is a big difference.

There is no need to parrot the official part line as Sun has enough PR budget to take care of it.

Excuse me. I did say that the term 'Java Desktop' was misleading.... hardly the 'party line'.

Steve you seem to have taken up the job of Suns spokesman on TSS.

A strange comment, considering I have always been ready to concede where Sun's products lack features.

But since you always support the official part line I have few points to make.

See above statement. Perhaps it might be an idea to research my posts before putting forward such an unhelpful generalization.

Suns continued pouring in money on Netbeans neither helps community nor Sun.

It is called 'competition'. NetBeans is recognised to be in advance of Eclipse in some areas (and behind in others). I would imagine that the NetBeans free J2ME and J2EE tools certainly do help the community.

Forget app server and IDE the war is lost and it is time to move on.

That is your personal opinion. Many of us simply don't share it.

I am happy to debate, but I would respect opinions more if they were not preceeded by somewhat insulting generalisations.

Just be thankful that unlike Microsoft, Sun is leaving their name out of it - no Sun Java EE.Personally they should of done this a long time ago as I know alot of people who have no clue what "J2ME" or J2SE" stands for.

Ha, got you there mate. While Microsoft may call their products Microsoft XYZ, nobody uses the term. The real power of Microsoft is that we say "Windows" but mean "MS Windows", People say "Office" and Mean "MS Office". The real power of a brand is actually if you can drop it and it somehow still hovers around. At least Apple was more inventive, by calling stuff iWhatever instead of Apple Whatever!

Ever heard of it? Oh wait it's called Borland again.

Name branding is a concept that seems to be hard to grasp for Sun. The J2EE moniker carries a lot of weight and has a nice technical ring to it; J-PEE, not so much. Sun decrees that we type out "Java EE" - a nice wish but unlikely to happen. Unless Sun *wants* us to call it JEE or JPEE ("juppie"?)

JPEE(spanish H) = HPEE ~ PHEE = FEE?

Sun's marketing track record is less than excellent. I don't think the name Java 2 ever made sense or was actively used much outside sun. Especially when significant updates happened after jdk 1.2 it made more sense to use the jdk version number than Java 2.

Similarly I see people refer to java as jdk 1.5 rather than Java 5. Also I noticed that the second E in J2EE is commonly dropped in spoken language (try it, it sounds silly). There seems to be lots of confusion among manager types about what is what. For them it's simply all Java.

Apparently SUN agrees with me because they are changing the name, again. Of course this confuses the hell out of their customers. And it doesn't solve the core problem that the version number 5 doesn't actually tell you anything about which versions of what apis & jdk are specified by it.

Why not JEP (Java Enterprse Platform)? ... eventually followed by version number.

If it was Java Enterprise Edition (JEP), then standard Java would be Java Standard Edition (JSP). Don't think so. Or perhaps, they could rename it to Java Core Edition (JCP). Don't think so.

There is a need for a new age language to get the young uns' excited as Java did in '95. Ah... the good old days.

Funny, but why even official Java site http://java.sun.com is not obeying this naming convention? :)

Indeed, why not to get rid of that 2s and Es and call platforms as JavaE, JavaS and JavaM? Simple and tasteful: JavaE 5.0. 'Manager types' will be happy as well :)

JavaS, JavaC and JavaM

I don't see any good in this! In Hong Kong, the business community has only started to widely accept the brand J2EE in recent year or so. So why should Sun change something with such brand value? Is it because they have nothing to lose (since they have zero market share as far as I am aware) compare to say IBM? Or they think it is a good idea for someone like us to go to the client and say our solutions are built on the JEE 5 platform, formly know as J2EE 1.5 and in the future will be know as something else just to confuse the hell out of our clients?? Completely bemuses me man.

"Java double 'E'"?

"javaee!" (this is swahili for , 'wheeeee!', which is commonly uttered after jumping from a tire swing into a lake).

"java ee ee!" (I would be hesitant to use this one, as among some remote tribes in the upper yukatan Peninsula it means 'plug my butt with a cork, I got monster gas').

What's in a name? Only what it represents.

How about those thousands of books published with "J2EE" in the title, such as "Core J2EE Patterns", "J2EE Development without EJB" etc. etc. Should the publishers do a massive recall?

I think I'm going to take a cue from the managers where I currently work. They like the word Java but they don't qualify it...

EJB = Java
J2EE = Java
Tomcat = Java
Apache = Java
Servlet/JSP = Java
Javascript = Java
Any web app = Java
The next course to send our employees on = Java course
What we drink in the morning = Coffee (?)

So, I think from now on I'm just going to call the entire stack "Java - the one with the 5 in it" so they don't need to worry about the 1.5 vs 5 issue either.

I think I'm going to take a cue from the managers where I currently work. They like the word Java but they don't qualify it...EJB = JavaJ2EE = JavaTomcat = JavaApache = JavaServlet/JSP = JavaJavascript = JavaAny web app = JavaThe next course to send our employees on = Java courseWhat we drink in the morning = Coffee (?)So, I think from now on I'm just going to call the entire stack "Java - the one with the 5 in it" so they don't need to worry about the 1.5 vs 5 issue either.

Swing = Java?
SWT = Java?
Java WebStart = Java?

Me = Java.
You = Java.
All = Java!?!

I think I'm going to take a cue from the managers where I currently work. They like the word Java but they don't qualify it...EJB = JavaJ2EE = JavaTomcat = JavaApache = JavaServlet/JSP = JavaJavascript = JavaAny web app = JavaThe next course to send our employees on = Java courseWhat we drink in the morning = Coffee (?)So, I think from now on I'm just going to call the entire stack "Java - the one with the 5 in it" so they don't need to worry about the 1.5 vs 5 issue either.

+1

I work in a COBOL shop that is moving to Java. On occasion, I've mentioned the J2EE spec and been met with some upset managers until I could explain that J2EE is still Java. I've explained the J2SE/J2EE relationship so many times my head hurts. The fact of the matter is, neither my managers, my customers, my fellow developers, nor myself really give a D@#$ about this name change. It's still Java and the additional Java "stuff" that provides us the ability to write enterprise web applications (and EJBs, and web services, and all that other (sometimes) good stuff).

So call it Java and Java Grande for all I care... So long as it's all still Java, we're good.

I think it is tooo much! very frequent change in names and versions ... are not at all good ... you know as students perspective when we purchage a book on java b4 we finish it new version or some thing new on java is already in market .. so now purchage new one ! huh...

I work in a COBOL shop that is moving to Java. On occasion, I've mentioned the J2EE spec and been met with some upset managers until I could explain that J2EE is still Java.

Ahhhhh. Managers. Recruiters. VBers. COBOLers. ... :) Gotta love 'em

and of course

.NET = MS Java

I just hope they didn't pay some marketing firm too much for this advice. It makes more sense than J2*, though. I never understood why there was a "2" anyway. It was as if Sun was embarassed that anything prior to Java 1.2 existed and wanted to differentiate their later products from their former. Of course, it just got sillier trying to say "J2SE version 1.5". The least they could have done back in the 1.2 days, was call it 2.0. Then the J2* would have had some relevance. Oh well.

Hi!

Really interesting. Looking back near teh Oak earth era, SUN always had a problem with naming conventions, and i certainly makes things very confusing.
One example was the package naming for Swing. Others are the JDK -> JSDK transfer and the Java 2 Platform containg jdk1.5_x_xx and JRE 1.5.

It was as if Sun was embarassed that anything prior to Java 1.2 existed and wanted to differentiate their later products from their former.

That's not what I remeber from the time. Rather that the 1.2 version was such a greate rework of the platform that it should have deserved a ver 2. So the JDK1.2 and JRE1.2 became Java 2 Platform, later J2SE, J2EE, J2ME. For developer the names are well known and I think have a nice ring to them - ( the EE version a bit hard to pronounce though :-)

The least they could have done back in the 1.2 days, was call it 2.0. Then the J2* would have had some relevance. Oh well.

Right! As it is the '2' seems cut in stone, embedded in the meaninful parts of the acronym.

I'd like the above proposed naming standards.
Enterprice Java ( ver x.x_x_xx )
(Standard) Java ( ditto )
Mobile Java ()
Personal Java
Etc.

I'd be very surpriced if anyone really used Java EE, at least in spoken words.

Microsoft renames a perfectly good product label like Windows 2000, Windows 2003, Windows 2005 with a lame name like Windows Vista.

Now Sun takes a page out of the Microsoft book and takes an elegant naming convention like J2EE and replaces it with JEE5 (Jive).

God help them if the hired anyone from the Microsoft Office Marketing Group (Remember those retarded commercials during the Super Bowl ?)

I've just browsed the answers to this announcement and I'm very suprised.

What a difference with the very warm applause from the JavaOne attendees I've seen when it has been announced !

On the contrary, here, from this long thead, I could count no single positive post.

Personally, I think this good change should have happened long ago and it's the only one that makes sense. They must keep close to the past (J2XX) and the number 2 was completely meaningless now. I'm glad I won't have to explain these inconsistent J2XX acronyms again, to new Java developpers and managers in the future.

As I'm posting the only positive comment on "Java EE" here, I feel obliged to clarify that I do not work for the evil Sun Microsystems company.

I think that getting Java (not just the 'J') in the official titles is a good thing. I've come across a lot of people who seem to think that J2EE and Java are unrelated, and that JSPs are a programming language in their own right (erm... what's a filter and what's this MVC stuff anyway?).

I'm mainly thinking of recruiters, but non-technical manager types can be equally guilty - understandably I suppose given the plethora of acronyms that mean pretty much the same thing.

Shame this wasn't done years ago I reckon.

Will it take off? I wish, but I'm not overly optimistic.

I personally am glad they did something - even though I agree that this change is lame. I do a lot of Java training and was having much trouble teaching people about the different Java pieces. A typical discussion would be: "Well, the new standard edition is the J2SE 1.5, which they call Java 5... which should probably really be J5SE..." etc. Now at least I'll be able to say Java SE and Java EE or whatever.

I do agree that Java EE doesn't exactly roll off the tongue - but at least it isn't inherently confusing.

First there was Oak
Then there as Java
uh, Java 1
Then Java 1.2, Which was really Java 2
then Java 2, which was really java 1.3, 1.4, 1.5
No wait, that's Java 5

Wait, wait, what about the platforms (since Java's all about writing applications that are platform independant...) ME, SE, EE...

What's that? IBM has their own JRE?

The problem with Sun is that they have a love/hate relationship with their own best practices. Want to identify everything by a major/minor release? Fine. It plays to their base.

Want to de-emphasize how often changes are made to the core and now you want people to think about the consistancy of language, and not how often you change it? Fine.

But pick one. We're flippin' professionals here, not a bunch of script-kiddies. We know that the J stands for Java- it isn't Jam, Jeff or Joke.

Or is it J'Oak?

"The name is EE, Java EE" ;-)
Sorry to all the James Bond fans out there, but it was just too tempting!

Ever since Sun foolishly renamed it "Java Platform Edition, 1.2" or whatever, many Java programmers I know called it Java 2. 1.3 = Java 3. 1.4 = Java 4. Sun marketing finally caught up at Java 5.

Just call it Java 5 EE, Java 5 SE, Java 5 ME, etc. We may even have Java 7 EE 8... Indeed, Java 5 SE = 'language specs v.5' + 'standard environment' such as JMX which we are using since J2SE 1.3.1 + some vendor implementations of J2EE 1.3... Java 5 EE sounds better than JEE, Java EE 5... And, SE includes some JSRs such as JDBC, JavaBeans, JAXP, which have own version independently on Java VM release...

Checking with Google it seems that Java EE 5 is the correct and hence Java 5 EE is wrong way to say it?

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