BEA and Borland announced today plans to offer Borland JBuilder, BEA WebLogic Edition, an IDE for building enterprise applications on Weblogic with JBuilder. The companies have agreed to jointly market and distribute the product bundle through new reselling arrangements and alliances.


Also, check out a related article on ZDNet titled "Borland, BEA share some Java"


Press Release
-----------------
SAN JOSE, Calif. and SCOTTS VALLEY, Calif., Aug. 14 -- BEA Systems, Inc. and Borland Software Corporation today announced plans to offer Borland(R) JBuilder(TM), BEA WebLogic(TM) Edition, a tightly integrated product development solution for building enterprise applications on the industry-leading BEA WebLogic Platform 7.0(TM) with JBuilder, the industry leading development environment. In addition to providing deep product integration, BEA and Borland will join forces to drive JBuilder, WebLogic Edition through a new co-marketing and reselling agreement.
 
JBuilder, WebLogic Edition will provide developers with enhanced JBuilder support for building enterprise solutions and deploying them on BEA WebLogic Platform 7.0. Developers working inside the market-leading JBuilder environment will be able to take advantage of the new BEA WebLogic Workshop(TM), an integrated development framework that makes it easy for application developers to build reliable Web services. BEA and Borland have agreed to coordinate product development to offer JBuilder, WebLogic Edition features such as seamless application deployment to BEA WebLogic Server(TM), and support for the emerging JWS (Java Web Services) standard first offered in BEA WebLogic Workshop.

BEA and Borland also have agreed to join sales and marketing efforts to drive the success of JBuilder, WebLogic Edition. The companies have agreed to jointly market and distribute the developer product bundle, with the BEA and Borland sales forces working together to drive JBuilder, WebLogic Edition to market through new reselling arrangements and alliances. Both BEA and Borland have agreed to promote and sell JBuilder for BEA WebLogic through their Web sites and through other distribution channels.

"Borland and BEA continue to lead the market for Java(TM) and J2EE(TM) solutions," said Dale L. Fuller, president and CEO of Borland. "Borland's relentless focus on developer productivity and application performance aligns well with the strengths of BEA's new unified application infrastructure platform. We believe JBuilder, WebLogic Edition will become a preeminent development solution in the market, combining the market-leading WebLogic application infrastructure platform with our market-leading JBuilder development environment."

"BEA and Borland have been working closely in the field for some time to best serve our customers," said Alfred Chuang, founder, president and CEO of BEA Systems. "The deeper partnership and product cooperation between our two companies is intended to make JBuilder, WebLogic Edition one of the most productive Java development platforms in the industry. The winning product combination of JBuilder and the WebLogic infrastructure platform, plus the joining of our sales and marketing forces, is an important step in driving both Borland and BEA's continued market leadership."

Finally some welcoming news on the J2EE / IDE Front. Good to hear.

Wouldn't be better using an open source ide such as IBM Eclipse .All the java SWING coded ide's are simply useless
Faisal

What happens to Borland's own J2EE application server?

Borland Enterprise Server (BES) is still well and alive.
You can download the newly (last week) relased version (5.1)from Borland's site (www.borland.com).

Previously, you had to buy JBuilder Enterprise Edition (which ships with BES) to obtain all the J2EE features in JBuilder and also pay for a developer's license for Weblogic.

The same logic applies to the Sybase Edition.

Basically, you get JBuilder 7 Enterprise and a developer's licence of the application server associated with the edition you are buying.

Borland is being realistic about their prospects of grabbing market share for Borland EAS. I think that this may be their first step in dropping EAS -- it is not central to their strategy and it is not turning profit.

Well finally the no 1 IDE Jbuilder meets the no 1 App Server WebLogic ..Really good news for the Java community..GO BORLAND ..GO BEA :)

I don't really think JBuilder is the #1 IDE by any means but that's a different discussion.

I still don't understand why someone needs an IDE to work better with an application server. You just take XDoclet, Ant, and either Eclipse or IDEA and you've got pretty much everything you need. But that's just me.

-Mike

yes IDEA is the simple but really powerful IDE. The on the fly compilation is really useful and I think it is pure SWING and it looks great and runs fast.

-Edmund

Whice is #1 then ?

Mike,

It's not that you need an IDE to work with an appserver, instead, the IDE make you development life easier. Having and IDE that integrate with the appserver will make deployment easier. Have you ever tried to write an application in Jbuilder and deploy it on Websphere? It's a pain in the A$$.

Well, I cant understand how somebody can say this. Look around and you realize that JBuilder is almost worst IDE... and expensive...

  What makes you think so? Have you ever used it? And how long?
I have been working with Borland IDE's since begining of 1990's, and from my personal opinion, it is the best, or at least one of the best IDE.
  Sometimes people complained about impossibility to do something just because they doesn’t want to read README.TXT or specific docs in order to understand strategy of development tool (or doesn’t have a time, or good mood, or ...).
  IMHO, it happens most of the time - every time :)
Surely, Borland IDE has some limitations and bugs - like other IDE. Even more, some functionality is missed in JBuilder Enterprise Edition to compare, for example with Forte for Java Community Edition, XDoclet, Ant...
  But, from my point of view, would be better to be more constructive, and share your valuable experience with community, or at least with Borland JBuilder support team instead of just complaining :)
   
> and expensive...
1000% agree.

< quotation>
Every general conclusion is dangerous, including this one&#8230;
A. Duma
</ quotation>

Best regards,
Sergey

P.S. I'm not a Borland's employee :)

BEA probably choose Borland, because the chances of Borland dying on them is low :), second JBuilder has a lot of paided users, and a lot of users use JBuilder to deploy to BEA. Its a sales deal, they normally dont care what we think, mainly because we dont agree on which IDE is best, each one of us has their own opinion. So BEA choose the best marketing and sales partner, BORLAND. Borland has lots of good products, and their IDE have been around for a long time and will continue to be. The deal is also good for Borland since it will help boost sales of JBuilder.

just my two cents...
Personally I like JBuilder, eclipse, and netbeans...
and I also dont work for borland or bea :)

Well, I don't know about #1 on either, but JBuilder 7 is closer, because it has taken a cue from Eclipse. As for BEA, according to the latest stats, Oracle is number in Sales and posted the best ECPerfs to date.

I don't think that Oracle is the #1 in application servers. All the ECPerf test that make 3rd party testers give BES as the bes appserver. Oracle has the Orion AS inside, an excellent appserver. But in my experience, BES and Weblogic are very superior to it. I think that the low cost of BES and its new techonology, make it a better choice. The new BES's console is really fantastic.

I think that BES has an excellent techology inside, but the Borland's Marketing is a disaster. Bea is superior because of his marketing.

Boris:
I dont think this affects the Borland Enterprise Server product in any way. It has it's merits that the customers value. This news is definitely a plus for JBuilder.Wonder how pale the news of TogetherSoft+Webgain is compared to this news!

-=DP=-

Borland is, by no means, dropping EAS. BES is based on
robust and proven CORBA technology ( Visibroker as the
core ). To put it simply : BES has the technology and not
the name ( yet ), but BEA has the name, but not as equal a technology. Read these columns a year from now and you are
in for a surprise. Read the summary report from CSIRO. It
tells it all.

How about posting a link to the CSIRO report?

Br - Johan

  

Here is the chart:
http://info.borland.com/csiro/

And here is the original CSIRO link:
http://www.cmis.csiro.au/ADSaT/j2eev2.htm

Regards,
Mileta

<quote>
Borland is, by no means, dropping EAS. BES is based on
robust and proven CORBA technology ( Visibroker as the
core ). To put it simply : BES has the technology and not
the name ( yet ), but BEA has the name, but not as equal a technology. Read these columns a year from now and you are
in for a surprise. Read the summary report from CSIRO. It
tells it all.
</quote>

I seem to remember some people carrying on the same argument around this time last year. Going on about how the next version of BES was going to blow everyone away and take the market by storm... still nothing.

I am not saying that I think that BES is a bad product, because I have never used it so I can't rightly formulate an opinion on it. All I am pointing out is that history has proven that the best product does not always win the war. So it does not matter how good or bad BES is, if Borland doesn't get their act together BES is going nowhere fast.

I can assure you that Borland is totally committed to the Borland Enterprise Server. The Borland Enterprise Server continues to win in the marketplace both in independent benchmarks and more importantly in customer design wins. Whenever we go head to head against any of the other application servers we win hands down. Borland Enterprise Server is a healthy and growing business for Borland. Naturally our intimate integration with JBuilder makes us the obvious choice for a developer using JBuilder (ok I may be biased here <g>). As JBuilder grows so will the Borland Enterprise Server and vice versa. There are a ton of other advantages in many other areas including TCO and management that help to put us over the top when we compete but I'll leave that to another less technical venue.

The partnership was a win-win for Borland and BEA. Our JBuilder product was already the #1 Java IDE it was a natural choice for BEA when webgain failed. Ultimately we'll do what's right for growing our business whether that is JBuilder, Delphi, or Borland Enterprise Server. Our best products come from doing the obvious: listen to the customer and solve their big problems. This announcement reflects just that.

I encourage you to read the independent CSIRO report at:
http://info.borland.com/csiro/

Ben


Ben Riga
Director of Marketing
Borland Enterprise Server
briga@borland.com

In the end, I think that BEA would get a whole lot more mileage supporting something like Eclipse.

The reason for this is little to do with the IDE - its more to do with the Eclipse plugin platform.

By supporting Eclipse, BEA can control how good/tight the IDE integration is with Weblogic.

Also, BEA can make sure that IDE support is kept in step with their Weblogic Platform releases. Currently, the problem has been that on average IDE/Weblogic releases are always out of synch by about 3-6 months.

-Nick

In every poll, market study and award Borland JBuilder is rated as the #1 IDE. By linking arms with BEAs sales force they can only increase this lead. Eclipse is seen to be too IBM for BEA to consider.

What puzzled me was why this deal did not go to Together Soft. Those guys must be really upset. They bought all the WebGain trash thinking they would get a sweet deal from BEA and instead it goes to Borland. Poor things.

The other aspect of this relationship would be more tightly linked development. This should cut down the app server to IDE time lag.

This can only be good for everyone involved.
All IMHO of course.

>> In every poll, market study and award Borland JBuilder is
>> rated as the #1 IDE. By linking arms with BEAs sales force
>> they can only increase this lead.

Its true, they could have chosen a worse partner.

However, like I said: its not the IDE - its the client-side platform. Most of the tools vendors are supporting a level of integration with Eclipse. BEA only need to provide the Eclipse integration with Weblogic (rather than integrating with N IDE's). The philosophy is similar to the Connector Architecture - there is a division of responsibilities. Who better to integrate with Weblogic than BEA.

The question is this: Does BEA want to have a dependancy on *Borland* providing good IDE/Weblogic integration - or does it want to have some control?


>> Eclipse is seen to be too IBM for BEA to consider

Eclipse is open source, so I dont think that is true. I think it would be a great coup for BEA to provide the same level of integration with WSAD/Eclipse as IBM can with Websphere.

BEA have always had a good relationship with Borland viz JBuilder and Weblogic. I know that BEA were looking outside of their relationship with Webgain a year ago - so I am not sure this news is that big a surprise...


-Nick

>> The reason for this is little to do with the IDE - its more to do with the Eclipse plugin platform.

I don't agree, it really matters how good IDE is, and JBuilder is FAR better IDE then Eclipse. Try it and see yourself. Of course, JBuilder is not perfect, but it has much less weak points then other IDEs.

Regards,
Mileta

>>I don't agree, it really matters how good IDE is, and
>>JBuilder is FAR better IDE then Eclipse. Try it and see
>>yourself.

I know both - and I use neither. I use IntelliJ.

The Eclipse platform, however, is not an IDE.
In fact, the IDE itself is just a plugin for Eclipse.
If BEA provides the plug-in for Eclipse, then they have a free IDE that supports Weblogic. Not only that, they instantly have the same quality of integration with Together, WSAD, Rational XDE (even though it is junk), JBuilder(?), and any other vendor that integrates with Eclipse.

And, whats more, if BEA want to develop some IDE features - they just write another plugin for eclipse.

Dont get me wrong, I am not a huge fan of SWT, JFace etc - but I feel there is a lot of potential in the client-side eclipse platform.

-Nick

Is there any Eclipse plug in for BEA ?

Mansoor

Theres one from Genuitec (http://www.genuitec.com/news/2002/NewsEASIEWeblogic20020311.htm) and I think its free. Havent tried it myself, but looks like it starts and stops the server at least.

Br - Johan

After wasting all of the money on WebGain, BEA knows that it's in trouble. They don't have a development environment. They have IBM increasing market share faster then BEA. Someone once said "When you're #1 you have no where to go but down". This is a sign of that.

Companies that sell hardware and software like IBM and Sun can give greater discounts to customers. BEA can partner with HP (a company that can't create software) and Borland (a company that can't create anything except an IDE) all it wants. This is a relationship of necessity, not choice.

<quote>
Companies that sell hardware and software like IBM and Sun can give greater discounts to customers. BEA can partner with HP (a company that can't create software) and Borland (a company that can't create anything except an IDE) all it wants. This is a relationship of necessity, not choice.
</quote>

I think that Borland do a lot of good "no-ide" things. Bes is an excellente product, and it is supported by Visibroker the best corba broker.

I thinks this "symbiosis" make benefits for all. Don't forget that Jbuilder support Weblogic since vesion 4. Sun can sell hardware. That's all. The iPlanet is one of the worst appserver in the market. Forte is a good tool, but it is so integrated with iPlanet.

Then, the only company in my opinion that can give an integral soluction is IBM (as always). The other great company is Oracle (Who has the best DB, and a not-as-good-as appserver)

Borland does make some good products, but they never sold well. Only their IDE's are main stream.

As for Sun (iPlanet), you may not like their app server, but it's #3 in the market. It' beat Borland's, Oracle's, Ioan's, etc. Sun Directory is #1, their Portal is #1, Certificates #1 (maybe #2), Java Development (top 3), App Server #3. Integration Server #1. Many people pay for their Web Server instead of getting Apache for free. That's pretty impressive.

In fact, their software stack ranks better than IBM's. IBM may have a higher ranking App Server, but Sun's Directory 10 times better than IBM's. Sun's Portal 10 times better than IBM's. Sun's integration server 10 times better than anything IBM has. I'm not even sure if IBM has a Certificate server.

I'm agree with you. Borland never sold well his products. But i'm not talking about marketing. I'm talking about technology. The technology inside BEA and BES are quite superior to the sun technology. If i need to make a choice about and appserver, i'm chooce it based on techonoly, price, add-ons, etc. Not in marketing.

About all your numbers, it's quite good, but i think a little subjetive. If you are talking about iPlanet is the #3, who is #1 and #2? and #1 and #2 in development. About the portal, I think it is the java comunity portal!, not only for Sun. The centificates, i think you are on right.

But for now, we are talking about JBuilder and BEA.

The Portal from Sun that I referred to as #1 is not the Java Community Portal. I was speaking about Sun ONE Portal Server, which some surveys show is #1 in market share. There are plenty of studies showing all of the products that I listed as #1 to be #1.

I will admit that BEA and IBM are tied for #1 and #2 of the app. server market. There's a lot more to building architectures than just an app. server. If you compare the overall software stack of Sun to Oracle, IBM or BEA, Sun looks pretty good.

Well, about the JAVA ONE portal, i can speak, because i don't know about it, but about the other consideration, if i compare Bea to iPlanet, I think iplanet have nothing to do! But about IBM, i'm with you. :)

Well, i think is a very interesting discussion.

Good luck!

To my knowledge, BEA is wroking on its own IDE with a very tight intergration with Weblogic. What does the JBuilder
Weblogic Edition means to this upcoming IDE?

<quote>
Posted By: vernon wu on August 15, 2002 in response to this message.
To my knowledge, BEA is wroking on its own IDE with a very tight intergration with Weblogic. What does the JBuilder
Weblogic Edition means to this upcoming IDE?
</quote>

Well, if that's the case and since WebGain went belly-up, this would be called a stopgap measure, eh?

How about
Together ControlCenter Accelerator for BEA WebLogic Workshop
http://www.togethersoft.com/developers/integrations/beawlw.jsp
?

Looks pretty good:

Features enabled by the accelerator
This accelerator provides complete support of development and deployment of Web services to WebLogic Workshop. It enables use of the following features from within Together ControlCenter:

Create a new Web service diagram (specific to WebLogic Workshop)
Create Java Web Service (.jws) files visually or in code
Create WebLogic Workshop controls. You can generate controls from WSDL files (from import or by using the UDDI Browser), EJBs, or existing Web services
Intuitively link Web services with controls on one diagram
Start and stop the WebLogic Server
Deploy Web services and EJBs with one click
Generate client classes for WebLogic Web services