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News: Java 1.4.1 for Mac OS X Now Avaliable

  1. Java 1.4.1 for Mac OS X Now Avaliable (30 messages)

    Apple has released J2SE 1.4.1 for MacOS X. As Apple keeps up with the latest JVMs, OSX is becoming a viable enterprise development environment. We are seeing more and more converts in the development world, and they may also become a viable production deployment environment with their "server solution".

    This release delivers hundreds of new features, performance improvements and unique benefits by tightly integrating Java even more closely with key technologies of Mac OS X.

    http://www.apple.com/java

    Is Mac OS X becoming a development platform? Based on Unix. Supported by Borland and Oracle. Very interesting Indeed.

    Threaded Messages (30)

  2. OS/X Rules[ Go to top ]

    Simple the best implementation of Swing out there, Sun should have done it this years ago
  3. Power and Style[ Go to top ]

    BSD Unix plus a great User Interface. Shame about the price though ;-) Maybe Mac's are only for senior staff.
  4. Now if Apple can easily get a viable JVM for their bsd..
    Where's a complete JVM for the other *BSD's?
    Mac's would be a great development platform, except for the price.
  5. Mike: "Now if Apple can easily get a viable JVM for their bsd.. Where's a complete JVM for the other *BSD's?"

    I think the Apple JVM is licensed from Sun. So if Sun (or Apple) really wanted to support FreeBSD, they probably could. We've been using the OSX 1.4.1 JVM for a while, and it's been pretty solid.

    The nice thing about the Apple PowerPC machines is that they run very cool (temperature wise). You don't burn your lap (etc.) when holding a notebook. Battery life is fairly good.

    The nasty thing is the price and the performance. You usually end up paying at least 25% more for at least 25% less.

    OTOH - if you like what you get with a Mac (OSX GUI + Unix underneath) then you'll be pretty happy with the available options. Several of our partners and customers use Macs for development. I tried switching to a PowerBook for a while, but I just couldn't think different (sic). I still prefer the LifeBook "S" running Windows 2000.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!
  6. FreeBSD is working on it[ Go to top ]

    Now if Apple can easily get a viable JVM for their bsd..

    > Where's a complete JVM for the other *BSD's?

    FreeBSD is close to have a native JDK implementation.
    I'm using it right now without any problems.
    Once it passes all of the Sun TCK tests the FreeBSD folks will bundle it with the distribution.

    Best regards,
    Luis Neves
  7. Only for 10.2 and above, though...[ Go to top ]

    I guess that I'm too accustomed to the Open Source projects by now. It kind-of galls me to see that, since 10.2 (Jaguar) has been released, not one thing new from Apple will run on 10.1 anymore. I know that this is to force people to upgrade, if they want anything new from Apple. I guess they have to make a buck, but I still don't like it much.
  8. Sure.. but there are quite a few changes under the hood in 10.2 from 10.1 These are not minor upgrades but contain many changes and new features. When you look at the free applications you get as part of the 10.2 environment, it really makes it attractive.

    I'm used to open source too.. just downloading an ISO and off you go.. but really, in the whole scheme of things, the Jaguar upgrade cost doesn't really factor in.

    For an on-topic question.. what sort of Mac OS X Java development environments are there?
  9. There are quite a few available and I'll probably miss a bunch but I'll attempt to list them here.

    (in alphabetical order)

    Apple ProjectBuilder
    Borland JBuilder
    Eclipse
    Emacs
    Intellij IDEA
    JEdit
    Metrowerks CodeWarrior
    NetBeans
    Oracle JDeveloper
    Sun Forte
    Vi

    etc, etc...
  10. OSX dev envs[ Go to top ]

    Netbeans
    Jbuilder
    IDEA
    ie any java base IDE will work and I believe that most of the java IDEs are java base.
  11. It has been 6-7 years since Apple has been in sync with current release of the JVM. Sun actually supported a Mac JVM when it was 1.0.X. I color-coded my files by object type (model.view,controller). It was very cool dragging and dropping all files onto javac to compile them. AWT on OS7, ugh! Sun gave up and Apple was left to its own. I had to buy a Windows box just to continue to work with Java.

    My concern is Apple's ability to keep up with the latest JDK spec. There will be a lag time ofcourse but how long will it be. Only time will tell.
  12. However cool it sounds , given the price and % of users, is it really goint to make a big difference in terms of MAC users. ? How may of us will now buy a mac or if u already have one start using it to develop java applications.

    I think windows box is still best for an IDE - programming.
    And when it comes to production u can go to unix / linux etc.

    Any comments ?????
  13. I'd say any PC is good. Most of the relevant SW is out for both Windows and Linux, and PCs have the great cost/performance advantage. Isn't competitive market great? (well, depending which side of it you're on.. ).
    V.
  14. I am a switcher ![ Go to top ]

    Hello,

    I have switched for an Apple computer about 2 years ago, simply because I feel more comfortable developping Java software on a Unix operating system.
    I know that linux could have been another solution. But it lacks all great software (not in relationship with coding !) like Photoshop, After Effects, Lightwave 3D and Final Cut Pro (without having to reboot). I am not always writing Java code when I sit in front of my computer !

    I can say that I am very very happy of the choice I have made two years ago !

    Cordially,

    Bertrand Pinel
    J2EE Senior Architect
    Softeam
  15. C'mon Vlad
    (hey, are you Vlad of IPS fame?)

    Where is your sense of passion for quality, my friend? doesnt the sheer presence of a well tested box, complete with dev tools, a real unix product, complete with Apache make you forget about the price?

    ok - for a more rational arguement: higher usability has significant cost benefits. I believe the apple/osx platform should be considered seriously by quality-driven organizations who want to reduce their maintainance overheads, training costs. PnP really means something in the apple world, even with OSX.
    Nitish.
  16. I think windows box is still best for an IDE - programming.


    Nope. Unix is.

    I believe nothing beats a Unix environment for development. Unix/Linux may seem
    a bit overwhelming or even intimidating at first, but if you get the hang of it,
    it's very hard to let go.

    OSX provides a very consistent and nice friendly interface on top of a fully functional Unix. I'm quite sure that a lot of people would get themselves
    a Mac if the prices would drop.

    For Java development it doesn't matter which platform you choose
    (if you do it the right way ofcourse). But I'm quite astonished that a lot of
    people don't even succeed to understand the true spirit of Java because they
    only develop for Windows and that's a pity.
  17. Regarding Development / Programming i guess we have a diff. view then. For me someitmes its a waste of time to type TO REMEMBER & TYPE lot of commands just to do some simple stuff which can be done with simple mouse clicks on a GUI than a CUI. There is no point in wasting time in typing ton of commands on comnd line if they can be done visually. How many pwd and cd commands are needed on a command prompt a day, . But if u can just see the names of the folders on screen its much simpler. My examples are all related to development and not production.
    Ofcourse its my thinking, and i will keep it that way. :)
  18. Then use X and a GUI file manager (Nautilus, Konq, GMC, ROX, etc).
  19. Well I gave it my best try, but its not worth the pain to use X windows or any other similar products giving GUI functionality on unix box. Its like using sword to cut wood. Yes u can do it, but its not meant for.
        I had a lot of trouble using GUI tools on unix boxes and I think for GUI stuff we got to give credit to Microsoft. No one can make that kind of GUI.

       Also all the tools like eclipse, j builder, visual slick edit etc tools give so many features on windows boxes that its hard to resist the temptation. It saves about 20 to 30% of my programming time which i can utilize to think towards the logic of the program, than to spend time in remembering the commands / operations of the of the ide / tool itself.
    anyway .. its my choice and i will stick to it :).
  20. Re shs[ Go to top ]

    Hmmm... if you're happy with XP, then by all means use it but OSX provides a nice UI even though it's linux. Linux with various window managers also provide nice UI's although most are difficult to use if you're used to XP.

    Concerning IDE's, Eclipse and JBuilder, two of the IDE's that you mentioned, are cross platform. They do not have any benefits running on a particular platform unless of course there's some native plugin that you need - which I doubt. Visual Slick Edit is a windows program only as far as I know. I found it to be powerful but not intuitive for Java work (for me).

    So, your IDE argument is not a very good one. Also, once you are used to xterms and unix commands, using windows explorer, finder, or whatever ui can seem terribly tedious. Terminals are extremely powerful and while you may be using a different part of your brain to use them, they enable you to work much quicker than doing everything in a file browser. I prefer to use both. Even on windows, I use cygwin.

    I agree that we need to give Microsoft credit for many aspects of window managers but since you used windows, you are biased. If you were to use OSX every day for work for several months, you would adapt and notice some benefits to OSX. I know this because I've gone among XP, Linux, and Macs and found that they all have benefits.
  21. Re: RE shs[ Go to top ]

    Couple of points...

    > Hmmm... if you're happy with XP, then by all means use it but OSX provides a nice UI even though it's linux.

    It's BSD Unix based, not Linux. A lot of people regard that as a big difference...

    > Visual Slick Edit is a windows program only as far as I know. I found it to be powerful but not intuitive for Java work (for me).

    SlickEdit has been cross-platform for a _long_ time (Linux, Solaris, AIX, HP-UX and IRIX supported currently - apparently not Mac though :-( )

    > I agree that we need to give Microsoft credit for many aspects of window managers but since you used windows, you are biased.

    As someone who used OS/2 for a while (as a robust PC development environment when Windows was flaky as anything) which had a proper object desktop, I really cannot see that Microsoft has done any really pioneering work on this.

    Except maybe their long time espousal of MDI did successfully prove that it wasn't the way to go for most UI projects ;-)

    /david
  22. I appreciate all the responses from all of you. I never said that i dont like non MS environments for DEVELOPMENT, I prefer them . But some of you may have taken it in a wrong sense, specially the "non MS" & sensitive ones. :).

    This brings me to a question i had asked on other thread ...
    How many offices ( besides some dot coms ) would move to mac for developers..
    may be in future .. but for next 5 to 10 years atleast , do u think any big organization can make a move to a different environment.

     @ specially given that when the business managers wont
     @ 80% of employees have windows boxes at home
     @ most of the companies are locked in with windows licenses etc
     @ linux is still not that popular at corporate level to boot out all windows boxes
     @ all free office software is not that user friendly specially windows user will have a good amount of learning curve
     @ and overall its a big change, so most of the big corporations in the given market conditions wont

    With all theses reasons just for some developers in a organization will a manager take a decision to move to linux or Mac boxes or just continue with what they have right now. I m sure some companies are their who may or who have development environment on non MS, but truthfully that number is too less...

    I think the mac , linux boxes will continue to be only in our house for some years and take time to break into corporate level.
  23. I think the question is how many Mac users plan to switch to Windows or Linux now? As a dev workstation, I think most will pick Linux everytime. As a server (Apple Xserver) you gotta have the latest optimized JDK for enterprise work. I think Apple has plugged one of many holes with the latest JDK in order to make their Xserver a little more viable. Still wouldn't buy an Xserver. Would Ellen Feiss?
  24. Of course, after you see the other Unix notebook choices, the PowerBook is pretty compelling in terms of price.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!
  25. sean wrote:
    > This brings me to a question i had asked on other thread ...
    > How many offices ( besides some dot coms ) would move to mac for developers..
    > may be in future .. but for next 5 to 10 years atleast , do u think any big
    > organization can make a move to a different environment.

    > @ specially given that when the business managers wont

    They have word & excel for the mac - that's usually all they care about (there's a need for a ms project clone on the mac though, AFAIK)

    > @ 80% of employees have windows boxes at home

    Is that because they have windows boxes at work? Rather a chicken and egg argument.

    > @ most of the companies are locked in with windows licenses etc

    That is Windows' biggest weapon.

    > @ linux is still not that popular at corporate level to boot out all windows boxes

    OSX is BSD Unix, not Linux!!!

    > @ all free office software is not that user friendly specially windows user will have a good amount of learning curve

    Not what I found at all - there's more of a learning curve going from 2000 to XP, or between versions of Excel. Every time I upgrade Windows, I can't find the configuration options because they've moved it again. Same with Excel - I used to know where everything is, then they upgraded it and I couldn't find a thing.

    In contrast, almost everything on the Mac is in the intuitive place.

    And then there's the whole 'When Windows goes bad' thing where you have to re-install after a couple of years because of odd or inconsistent behaviour... how much of a waste of time is that?

    > @ and overall its a big change, so most of the big corporations in the given market conditions wont

    Inertia wins every time. MS counts on that. Also putting Macs in would be perceived as a risk by managers (nobody ever got fired for choosing Wintel).

    > I think the mac , linux boxes will continue to be only in our house for some years and take time to break into corporate level.

    Sadly I agree with you. Maybe we ought to get the managers doing the support and maintenance - that'd get them thinking about buying manageable systems!!

    /david
  26. I think the mac , linux boxes will continue to be only in our house for some years and take time to break into corporate level.


    > Sadly I agree with you. Maybe we ought to get the managers doing the support and maintenance - that'd get them thinking about buying manageable systems!!

    Maybe you should become a manager yourself? ;)
  27. They got me hook line and sinker. OSX is awesome. The question now is who needs XP when there are some very good alternatives on the market?
  28. Quite a few, I think[ Go to top ]

    I have a Windows box and a Mac at home. I have found myself using the Mac more and more (easier to use, less hassle configuring, etc). And I was a Windows application programmer for 5 years! I think the Mac has really renewed my enthusiasm for computers :-)

    With the arrival of Eclipse for the Mac and Java 1.4.1 (and a decent browser in Safari), I see the Mac as the development platform of choice - seriously!

    * Easy to use / configure - great networking support.
    * Great built in user tools (wish I could get the mail reader or iPhoto on other platforms)
    * all the heavyweight tools from unix (built in apache/ldap/firewall/internet stuff)
    * ability to run the standard Java/Jakarta development tools (Tomcat/Ant, etc)

    You might argue that they are not that good value in terms of processor speed, but what price productivity?

    Anyway, FWIW, my next home computer will be another Mac - the Wintel box will go to the kids ;-)

      /david
  29. Macintosh Facts[ Go to top ]

    Price: The purchase price of a Apple computer can be higher then a bare bones PC. The fact is the Apple does not sell bare bone machines, all machines come with Firewire, USB, Modems, Graphics cards, Sound Cards, Ethernet connections, optical mouse, high quality monitors, by default. In a PC you have to purchase them as add-ons. Also adding to the initial purchase price of an Apple is the core hardware components are from major reputable suppliers, however most PC, are build from what ever is the cheapest on the day, with little concern for quality.

    These two factors, means that Apple Computer does have a higher initially cost price, however a Macintosh is actually cheaper to run and maintain over its lifetime. A lifetime that also happens to be far longer then the average PC, due to better inital design and manufacture.

    OS: Mac OSX is a FreeBSD based on an open source OS called Darwin (Darwin Home-page). It is not a Linux clone.

    Open Source: Apple has become one of the leading commercial user of open source projects. Steve Jobs (Apple CEO), on numerous public occasion has proclaimed open source as the way of the future. Apple unlike other companies does not simple take, from the open source, it actively contributes is developments back into the open source process. Two such projects are FreeBSD, and KHTML (The bases for Apple' Safari browser), Apple is also actively rumoured to be working with OpenOffice developers in fully bringing OpenOffice to the Macintosh.

    Java: Java on OSX rules, having experienced Java on Windows, and Linux, I can say that neither even cast a shadow on OSX Java implementation. Every Macintosh comes with Java from get go, Java is integrated into the OS at a framework level. Ever Mac comes with a every imaginable UNIX tool, all which comes with every Macintosh computer sold. Apples has made a commitment to not only Java, but the whole UNIX, and open-source communities. to make every Apple Macintosh, a world class developer platform. A fact that can be seen by the amount of interest the once beleaguered Macintosh now attracts on boards just like this one.

    Their is a change in the air, its smells like an Apple favoured Java/UNIX/OpenSource, and yes it is very addictive as any switcher will tell you.
  30. Daniel Steinbert has written more about the Java 1.4.1 Mac release.

    A few people have said that some of the Swing stuff is buggy... however you can still run 1.3.1 alongside the new release.
  31. Xwindows Too![ Go to top ]

    do not forget XWindows for MacOS X. This opens up Mac OS X to all those applications that are built for XWindows and not Aqua, etc. I've seen screens of GIMP running on a Mac! I wonder if visual slickedit will work...

    XWindows Info


    I am not a switcher. I cannot purchase one because of price. But looking at what you get. iLife Apps (iDVD,iMovie, etc) and that does not include all the free stuff you get from their development site if you are a developer. Tons of stuff. A IDE, Sample java and cocoa code! It is very tempting.

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