Home

News: Apache Geronimo 1.0-M5 Released and Certified J2EE 1.4 Server

  1. Apache Geronimo 1.0 M-5 is making steady progress in becoming yet another serious J2EE server offering. This latest release has passed Sun rigorous J2EE compatibility test, TCK 1.4.

    Is Geronimo finally becoming serious contender in the J2EE space?

    Threaded Messages (53)

  2. JDK 5[ Go to top ]

    Somebody tested Geronimo under JDK 5.0?
  3.  Apache Geronimo meets Java standard
    Posted by: SJ M on October 11, 2005 in response to Message #187254 0 replies in this thread
    http://geronimo.apache.org/

    Business is war!

    First you make a silly and noisy post in the " Rickard Oberg creates TheJBossIssue blog" thread , you post this "news" and then you ask "Is Geronimo finally becoming serious contender in the J2EE space?"
    Never!! if people like you are involved.
  4.  Apache Geronimo meets Java standardPosted by: SJ M on October 11, 2005 in response to Message #187254 0 replies in this threadhttp://geronimo.apache.org/Business is war!
    First you make a silly and noisy post in the " Rickard Oberg creates TheJBossIssue blog" thread , you post this "news" and then you ask "Is Geronimo finally becoming serious contender in the J2EE space?"Never!! if people like you are involved.

    It seems like it is apropos to me. Why not post this on TSS?
    I hope Geronimo does well. Competition is good. This topic seems relevant.

    What is the problem?
  5. Rick, you should read carefully the postings before replying to them just for the sake of doing it.

    I did not say it was not appropriated to post it on the the TSS.
    I said it was noisy and inappropriated to post the silly nonsense above mentioned posting in the other thread.
    And postings (any) that come from such kind of people make me not take seriously at all the posting itself. Thats all.
  6. Rick, you should read carefully the postings before replying to them just for the sake of doing it.

    I actually know exactly what you were saying, and disagree.

    I didn't find the comment noisy or inappropiate.
    I did not say it was not appropriated to post it on the the TSS. I said it was noisy and inappropriated to post the silly nonsense above mentioned posting in the other thread. And postings (any) that come from such kind of people make me not take seriously at all the posting itself. Thats all.

    I actually know exactly what you were saying, and I still disagree.

    His comments and posts were related and interesting.

    Biz is War is funny.

    Cheers,
    Rick Hightower
  7. Business is war.
    Is that noisy? or am i missing something i am not aware of.

    Anyway i am suprised by the speed of development of geronimo, thought they would never make it anyway. How many people are on it? I guess it will not be the best performing server out there. I am happy that it is there though. It ,at least, prevents others from getting to cocky;-)

    hhm good old posting problems are back, 5th try
  8.  Apache Geronimo meets Java standardPosted by: SJ M on October 11, 2005 in response to Message #187254 0 replies in this threadhttp://geronimo.apache.org/Business is war!
    First you make a silly and noisy post in the " Rickard Oberg creates TheJBossIssue blog" thread , you post this "news" and then you ask "Is Geronimo finally becoming serious contender in the J2EE space?"Never!! if people like you are involved.

    We shall see wont we? If you don't understand that busines is war then truly we shall see. I myself am not interested in litigious institutions. Who do you represent? The purpose here is to air our views and my belief is what I stated. Competition is the essence of a healthy friction free economy.

    Innovation not litigation.
  9. Who do you represent?
    Are you still at school for asking such silly questions ?
    I represent myself..but it seems you do not..maybe you are trying to hide yourself behind some corporations or worse some OSS communities to deal with your existential issues....

    As far as Geronimo is concerned..if one day people use it,
    it will be ONLY because IBM marketed it well..just like they did with WAS.
    From a technical point of view, Geronimo is already a failure. The attempt to glue together bunch of code and pretend it to be an innovative, valid and mature AS just because it comes with the Apache label has failed. End of story!
    Now...the rescue of Ghostronimo by IBM is not going to change anything. IBM will probably succeed..but you failed no matter how hard you try to hide your failure under yet another corporation...

    Business is war as you said, but sadly you do not fight because you can only watch it
  10. As far as Geronimo is concerned..if one day people use it, it will be ONLY because IBM marketed it well..just like they did with WAS.From a technical point of view, Geronimo is already a failure. The attempt to glue together bunch of code and pretend it to be an innovative, valid and mature AS just because it comes with the Apache label has failed. End of story! Now...the rescue of Ghostronimo by IBM is not going to change anything. IBM will probably succeed..

    now i understand a little bit more why you are so hard on the guy. I am not a big fan of apache also, i mean for goodness sake they gave us struts. That framework is so incredible stupid and destructive.
  11. Who do you represent?
    Are you still at school for asking such silly questions ? I represent myself..but it seems you do not..maybe you are trying to hide yourself behind some corporations or worse some OSS communities to deal with your existential issues....As far as Geronimo is concerned..if one day people use it, it will be ONLY because IBM marketed it well..just like they did with WAS.From a technical point of view, Geronimo is already a failure. The attempt to glue together bunch of code and pretend it to be an innovative, valid and mature AS just because it comes with the Apache label has failed. End of story! Now...the rescue of Ghostronimo by IBM is not going to change anything. IBM will probably succeed..but you failed no matter how hard you try to hide your failure under yet another corporation...Business is war as you said, but sadly you do not fight because you can only watch it

    Thank You. Apologies for the platitude if it offended anyone. I myself use the tool most suitable for the job and I have found instances where Spring, Hibernate and Tomcat have worked fine for me and in some cases I have built stuff on 9IAS, WebLogic and WebSphere heck I have even done some .Net projects.

    All I trying was trying to convey is that its business as usual and there will be FUD and misinformation whatever and whomever people support. Do what we do and stay focused on writing great software.

    I did not mean it to become the basis for a diatribe.

    It was in no way intended to come across as disrepectful or rude.
  12. Scoop[ Go to top ]

    This server looks totally worth evaluating, but since that takes a while, does anybody have first-hand experience with this server, or has anybody spent a lot of time reviewing it?

    Thanks
    Guglielmo
  13. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    Has anyone been threatened with a suit for putting Geronimon in their marketing?

    If not, Geronimo looks like a good alternative to JBoss.
  14. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    Geronimo looks like a good alternative to JBoss.

    Gernomio is Apache licnese which states you can't use the name.

    Also.... Geir of Gerinomo has stated that the reson in a famous IP document he published that Geronimo was able to import and refactor jBoss code among other reasons becuase jBoss did not patent it's designs. Lets not forget all that for '03. If jBoss ever proves that they own the code in a court of law, all software derivates using it are GPL retroactively (including anything IBM does w/ it).

    I think of if as jBoss under another name/license (+ Axis, whatever you think if that is good or bad).


    .V
  15. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    Vic :

    I know I shouldn't feed the trolls... but...
    Gernomio is Apache licnese which states you can't use the name.

    Yes, the Apache License is a license governing how you can use the code and other rights that may accompany it, and trademark rights are not granted by the Apache License. You can read it for yourself here : http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0
    Also.... Geir of Gerinomo has stated that the reson in a famous IP document he published that Geronimo was able to import and refactor jBoss code among other reasons becuase jBoss did not patent it's designs.

    THis is baloney, Vic, and you know it. Geronimo has not 'imported and refactored JBoss code'. Period. We've been around this tree time and time again. There is no JBoss code in Geronimo. There's Apache code in JBoss. Do we really want to revisit this again?
    Lets not forget all that for '03. If jBoss ever proves that they own the code in a court of law, all software derivates using it are GPL retroactively (including anything IBM does w/ it).I think of if as jBoss under another name/license (+ Axis, whatever you think if that is good or bad)..V

    I'm not sure what JBoss would or would not do in a court of law (isn't that a different thread?) but as we've said before, there is no JBoss code in Apache Geronimo. There's lots of Apache code in JBoss, but that's fine - after all, it's open source.

    Please stop with these inane and baseless assertions.

    - geir
  16. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    Geir of Gerinomo has stated that the reson in a famous IP document he published that Geronimo was able to <snip> refactor jBoss code among other reasons becuase jBoss did not patent it's designs.
    Geronimo has not 'imported and refactored JBoss code'. - geir


    Geir, you posted a document on tss where in one of the attachemts to the jBoss legal questions the answer was:
    it was not patentned by jBoss so we can take that or words to that effect.
    And lets not forget the sf.net had "laticework for checking out from jboss and into geronimo"
    Also, on the Geronmio mail list, there was a case where an import jboss line was placed in cvs, and ... the decision was that it should be deleted out of cvs w/o tracking revisions.
    Or are we supposed to forget that?

    I realy don't like when credit is not given, it just ruinns our profesion from the organization that developed to people that copied.


    .V
  17. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    Vic :
    Geir, you posted a document on tss where in one of the attachemts to the jBoss legal questions the answer was: it was not patentned by jBoss so we can take that or words to that effect.

    You'll have to show me. I think what you are referring to is the idea that I support being able to read, learn from and be inspired by open source code. After all, that's one of the fundamental drivers for Richard Stallman and the whole open source movement.
    And lets not forget the sf.net had "laticework for checking out from jboss and into geronimo"

    I can't being to imagine what you mean here. There is no way to check code out of JBoss and into Geronimo on sourceforge, because Geronimo isn't on sourceforge. And no, there is no JBoss code in Geronimo
    Also, on the Geronmio mail list, there was a case where an import jboss line was placed in cvs, and ... the decision was that it should be deleted out of cvs w/o tracking revisions.Or are we supposed to forget that?I realy don't like when credit is not given, it just ruinns our profesion from the organization that developed to people that copied..V

    Again, you're completely misrepresenting what happened.

    Short version : no JBoss code went into Geronimo, a new person on the project got confused when contributing his code that he'd also contributed to JBoss (which is his right), nothing was hidden - you can see it all in our commit mail archives. He tried to just start over by removing the file in CVS, and was repremanded for it.

    Long version: It was a toolkit for string manipulation that the contributor liked to use on every project he worked in. When he was working on JBoss, he used it there, and when he worked on Geronimo, he used it there too. I think he originally wrote it for something called bliss. Don't remember. Anyway, there was some package name w/ jboss in it, because he had made that modification before contributing to JBoss. Once he saw that, he made the mistake of just deleting the file in the repo, and started again. All commit deltas are published via email, and if you really wanted to see for yourself, you can go back now and look in our mail archive. He was repremanded for deleting the repo, and that was that.

    Vic, I have no idea why you keep wanting me to debunk this stuff over and over, but I guarantee that I will. The Geronimo codebase is clean, as are it's dependencies. We take a lot of care to ensure this, and we have no problem with people examining the codebase and it's history. It's all out there accessible to the public - all the code and all the history.

    - geir
  18. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    Geir,
    I can't being to imagine what you mean here. There is no way to check code out of JBoss and into Geronimo on sourceforge, because Geronimo isn't on sourceforge. And no, there is no JBoss code in Geronimo

    I think Vic is referring to the Elba fork ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/elba/) which was around the time Geronimo was started, but I'm pretty sure that no code went from Elba to Geronimo.

    Thomas
  19. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    You'll have to show me. I think what you are referring to is the idea that I support being able to read, learn from and be inspired by open source code.

    http://geronimo.apache.org/20041028_jbossresponse.pdf
    Page 8 says: "different implementaiton of the idea that came from jBoss".

    Had jBoss patented the idea, you could have not done it. You should make that clear.

    I am against removing attribution!
    Violating copyrights lowers our salaries.

    Open source is not for stealing! It's so that we can have sofware for free and *ensuring* attribution. I guess you guys found a way arround it.

    .V
  20. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    Had jBoss patented the idea, you could have not done it. You should make that clear.

    Well, had Netscape patented the graphical web browser or key parts of it we would still be using Netscape Navigator..

    If people where to make clear every idea they use that they were not the original inventors of, people would do nothing else but refering to other peoples ideas.
    I am against removing attribution!
    Violating copyrights lowers our salaries.
    Reusing other peoples ideas is not copyright violation, if it where, every developer who has ever touched Java is probably in violation of "the Gang of Four"'s copyrights, heck, we even use the same vocabulary a lot of the time!
  21. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    every developer who has ever touched Java is probably in violation of "the Gang of Four"'s copyrights, heck, we even use the same vocabulary a lot of the time!

    So Willie, is your argument that we should not call it "Geronimo" but a jBoss pattern?
    In this case, we preserve attribution, OK by me. I'll start calling it that. You can use E=mc2 as long we know the origniator of the idea.

    Anyways, some lawer should take this on contigency for damages, hopefully and make Geronomi based apploications GPL so we can have source code.

    .V
  22. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    So Willie, is your argument that we should not call it "Geronimo" but a jBoss pattern?In this case, we preserve attribution, OK by me.
    No, we should call it Geronimo, which is a _J2EE container_ (I could put some good money on both Geronimo and JBoss sharing a lot of implementational patterns with both Weblogic, Websphere and Oracle in certain part, in no small part due to them implementing the same spec.
    some lawer should take this on contigency for damages, hopefully and make Geronomi based apploications GPL so we can have source code..V
    You can already have the source, it's in Geronimos CVS/Subversion/whatever and readily available under an Apache license.

    You are pretty much grasping after FUD-grass straws..
  23. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    You can already have the source, it's in Geronimos CVS/Subversion ...

    Geronimo is now ASF OS license ... and if the lawyers prove it's a derivative it would become GPL OS(viral in case you know that that is). This affects people using Geronimo; not just accused GlueCode/CDN people that may have plagerized.

    Ah... the joys of EJB tech and vendors.

    hth,
    .V
  24. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    You'll have to show me. I think what you are referring to is the idea that I support being able to read, learn from and be inspired by open source code.
    http://geronimo.apache.org/20041028_jbossresponse.pdfPage 8 says: "different implementaiton of the idea that came from jBoss".

    I just read the document, and here's what it actually says:
    ... it's a different implementation of an idea in the JBoss implementation.

    So points off for not even quoting the document you linked properly.

    Now, if jBoss did patent the idea, then I suppose it could be argued that Apache could not use the code.

    However, I bet jBoss is not the first company/group/individual to implement such an idea. The burden to find that information out is, I believe, on the government when the patent is applied for. But all of that is moot anyways.

    jBoss didn't patent it, and even if they did, Geronimo had so heavy changed it that I doubt a lawsuit would hold up in court.

    Ever here of Apple's lawsuit against Microsoft? (which one, right ;) The one where they claimed Microsoft's Windows stole their GUI. Microsoft completely ripped it off of Apple, who in turn took it from Xerox if I'm not mistaken. But in any case, Apple lost, even though the similarities were sick. Point is, an idea in computer science is incredibly tough to defend, not to mention the functionality.

    Had the Apache group used jBoss' code, I'd agree with you completely. They didnt. It's not even close.

    I think Geir has thoroughly proved your statements as lacking any credibility whatsoever. Please move on.
  25. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    The world is based on copying:
    - children copy behavior from parents, peers, and everybody;
    - learning is 99% about copying;


    Prohibiting copying is really bad for the humanity as a whole but can be very profitable for individuals…
  26. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    The world is based on copying:- children copy behavior from parents, peers, and everybody;- learning is 99% about copying;Prohibiting copying is really bad for the humanity as a whole but can be very profitable for individuals…

    Ah, at last some valuable insight! Thank you Konstantin. This thread's been worth reading after all.

    Kit
  27. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    Geronimo has not 'imported

    as per http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=geronimo-dev&m=106942847905639&w=2

    "a jboss package name was noticed in a commit message
    but could not be found in the CVS history."

    and http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=geronimo-dev&m=106875482022176&w=2

    hth,
    .V
  28. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    I keep thinking that I would like to sit down with you, Vic, for dinner one day, just to try to figure out your apparently pathological obsession with this.

    Also, we should just setup a site where we can list your claims and the refutations of them, so we can be more efficient - our threads here would be something like :

    Vic : Claim 7!

    Geir : Refutation 14 and 8!

    Maybe you could do both in the same post with a shorthand :

    C{7}->R{14,8}

    We'd both save a lot of time. You could get your monthly anti-Geronimo FUD quota done in far fewer keystrokes.

    Anyway...
    Geronimo has not 'imported
    as per http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=geronimo-dev&m=106942847905639&w=2"a jboss package name was noticed in a commit message but could not be found in the CVS history."

    Note that the message continues to explain exactly what happened - that it wasn't "Jboss code", but code with a JBoss package name in it, becuase the author had contributed the same thing to JBoss, and then goes on to fully describe what was done, and what should be done in the future. All above board, all in public, and all take care of 2 years ago (and this code isn't in Geronimo anyway...). Further note that this code had nothing to do with the JBoss claims - this issue was discovered by Apache while doing it's due-diligence for the JBoss letter.

    Remember, Apache takes license and ownership issues very seriously.
    and http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=geronimo-dev&m=106875482022176&w=2hth,.V

    You actually undermine your own argument here. This message was for something entirely different than above- this was for dicussion regarding Apache's policies wrt code from elsewhere in the context of the JBoss letter.

    Note that two directors of the ASF are ensuring that *if* code from another copyright holder was committed without their permission or against the terms of the code's license, it *must* be completely deleted, becuase anything else would be considered re-distribution, something Apache wouldn't do. That's not hiding - that's protecting other copyright holders.

    IOW, Apache was ensuring that if the rights of another copyright holder had been violated, the rights of that copyright holder was respected by ensuring that there was no way it could be distributed in any form from Apache.

    Anyway, as it turned out, there was no code that needed to be removed because none of it was JBoss code. But you already know that, I suspect.

    Vic, I have no idea why you feel this urge to keep bringing up these same false claims over and over, but please - save us both the time and do your homework here. You don't have to like Apache Geronimo, but we've put a lot of work into clearing these FUD clouds. At Apache we put a lot of work into our IP provenance framework and process, and we're confident that the software stands up to examination. I urge you to go compare how other projects deal with the issues of contribution tracking and care with licenses, and see if your opinion changes.


    -geir
  29. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    figure out your apparent <snip> obsession with this.

    No reason for name calling now.

    Try this: I don't like when people steal code, or remove attribution, as I explained elsewhere, it undermines my profesion. Do you write code Geir? You role is like PR for GlueCode right? So keep defending them then, you get paid for it! I don't get paid and have nothing to do w/ jBoss or Geronimo.
    I have no idea why have anything at ASF still, you have no shame.

    There is no reason for you interpet the posts now, people can read and descide what the post said, no need for spin after the fact.


    .V
  30. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    Vic:
    I don't like when people steal code

    I am glad we cleared that one up ;-)
    .. or remove attribution

    The only example you've provided is the case the code donated to jboss was Apache code that had its attribution removed.

    You also have ignored the fact that many of the people that contributed to Geronimo had previously contributed to jboss.

    You talk about attribution, but the attribution should be to the people, which is what copyright is intended to protect. Only the people who wrote the code have the right to license it in this case.

    Further, the work going into Geronimo should benefit jboss, since jboss should be able to use the Geronimo code too. (The opposite is not true.)

    I think Geir has more than addressed the issues you raised, and he has done so directly. I fail to imagine how you could refer to his responses as "spin". Apache has been as transparent as humanly possible throughout this entire process, and so it should be extremely easy to find the "stealing of code" and "removing of attribution" that you consistently refer to.

    It seems to me that if you cannot produce even a single instance of "stealing of code" or "removing of attribution", then you should not be making such strong accusations.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol Coherence: Clustered Coherent Caching
  31. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    you should not be making such strong accusations.

    for the record, not me, but jBoss made the accusations via a lawyer.

    .V
  32. IP law is important[ Go to top ]

    Vic :
    figure out your apparent <snip> obsession with this.
    No reason for name calling now. Try this: I don't like when people steal code, or remove attribution, as I explained elsewhere, it undermines my profesion. Do you write code Geir? You role is like PR for GlueCode right? So keep defending them then, you get paid for it! I don't get paid and have nothing to do w/ jBoss or Geronimo.I have no idea why have anything at ASF still, you have no shame.There is no reason for you interpet the posts now, people can read and descide what the post said, no need for spin after the fact. .V

    Sorry if you thought I was calling names. That wasn't my intention.

    I don't like being accused of stealing code, especially when it's been demonstrated over and over that no code was stolen, or attribution removed, by the Apache Geronimo project.

    I write code, and reputation is important, and I will step up and defend the Apache Geronimo project and community as long as you keep trying to defame it.

    You say in a post below that you aren't making the accusations, but it was a JBoss lawyer. Well, you're wrong. The issues and concerns raised by the JBoss lawyer have been dealt with and put to rest, and everything since then has been raised by *you*, and you alone.

    At this point, you keep choosing to ignore any evidence contrary to your point of view on this matter, and keep reciting the same demonstrably baseless allegations over and over.

    Feel free to claim that my defense of your allegations as "spin" or such, but you have yet to be able to refute my explanations and statements in any material or credible manner.

    Lets give this a rest Vic. It's wasting our time. You generally have solid positions on things, so I can't see why you keep going with this one.

    -geir
  33. Some days ago I could read on the release note the absence of CMP / EJB 2.1 and clustering.
    Does this means certification ignores those elements? Or does this one includes all those?

    For folks looking to boycott JBoss, there is a robust and quiet mature implementation backed by a consortium whose name is ObjectWeb' Jonas - never tried it though but I don't really see why everyone is impatient to look at Geronimo as the sole JBoss alternative in OSS app servers landscape when there are one for years.
    Can someone comment? Is that just brand and marketing?
  34. Some days ago I could read on the release note the absence of CMP / EJB 2.1 and clustering.Does this means certification ignores those elements? Or does this one includes all those?

    I think it means that you either read an old release note, or are just massively confused. :)

    Apache Geronimo 1.0-M5 certainly includes EJB2.1 - it passed the J2EE 1.4 TCK, which includes a large suite of tests for EJBs.

    You are right in that this version does not include clustering, but that's not a requirement of J2EE. Of course, you should be able to easily cluster using something dependable like Tangosol's Coherance. For web-tier clustering it works with Jetty or Tomcat - you can choose with Apache Geronimo. I've never used their application clustering, but I'm sure that it's just as studly as the web-tier stuff.

    The release note is here :

    http://www.apache.org/dist/geronimo/1.0-M5/RELEASE-NOTES-1.0-M5.txt

    -geir
  35. <quote>
    For folks looking to boycott JBoss, there is a robust and quiet mature implementation backed by a consortium whose name is ObjectWeb' Jonas - never tried it though...
    </quote>

    I'm using JOnAS since its first version (since 5 years or so) and I'm very happy with it. Therefore I really don't understand all the moans with JBoss ;-) You all have the choice and you *can* choose your Open Source J2EE application server.

    OpenUSS uses a lot of EJB for its business layer and XMLC/EAF for its presentation layer and is delivering about 1 million hits per week using the *very old* version of JOnAS (2.3) and Enhydra (3.1) for its 22,000 users.

    Now we (OpenUSS 2.0) are moving to the newer version of JOnAS and Enhydra. In the mean time JOnAS is certified for J2EE spec. 1.4 and the best thing is that we have Enhydra Enterprise! So now we only need Enhydra Enterprise since it delivers directly JOnAS with Tomcat/Jetty with following advantages:

    - Based 100% on JOnAS and Tomcat/Jetty which is J2EE 1.4 certified.
    - Delivered with InstallShield for Windows and Linux. The installation of Enhydra Enterprise is very easy!
    - Delivered with Enhydra Director (Load Balancer for Apache web server 1.3.x, IIS). You can install Enhydra Director easily using InstallShield as well. Doing multiple installations of Enhydra Enterprise in different servers for load balancing is very easy.
    - Delivered with Enhydra Conductor (Load Balancer for Apache web server 2.x). Also installable with InstallShield.
    - If you don't need the EJB layer, Enhydra Enterprise offers DODS (OR mapper) and POJO business layer which are installable directly under Tomcat/Jetty without EJB.
    - Enhydra Enterprise also offers an Eclipse based IDE (plug ins for Eclipse).
    - There are a lot of example of Enhydra applications.
    - JOnAS structure is very similar to Tomcat, so if you understand Tomcat you will easily feel at home with JOnAS.
    - Again: Enhydra Enterprise uses JOnAS and Tomcat/Jetty for its containers, so no new products.

    Success stories JOnAS:
    http://solutions.objectweb.org/stories.html

    Enhydra:
    http://www.enhydra.org

    EJOSA (Enhydra - JOnAS) introduction article:
    http://www.jaxmagazine.com/itr/news/psecom,id,21908,nodeid,146.html

    Cheers,
    Lofi
    OpenUSS - EJOSA
  36. Lofi,

    Please don't take this the wrong way. I have nothing against JOnAS.
    I'm using JOnAS since its first version (since 5 years or so) and I'm very happy with it. Therefore I really don't understand all the moans with JBoss ;-) You all have the choice and you *can* choose your Open Source J2EE application server.

    Dice says this:
    Job Demmand:
       WebSphere 2,500
       WebLogic 2,084
       Tomcat 650
       JBoss 457
       JRun 64
       Resin 39
       Orion 7
       Geronimo 3
       OracleAS 3
       JOnAS 2
       Pramati 0
       ObjectWeb 0

    Geronimo is not even officially released, and there is more demmand for it than JOnAS (in the U.S.A. market).

    JOnAS has had years (at least 5 according to you) to make a dent in the U.S. market. It has not done so. Do you think it will now b/c of the "JBoss/Rickard Issue"? It won't.

    If you don't count Tomcat as a full blow application server than the number 3 application server (as far as job demmand goes) is JBoss.

    IMO Geronimo has a good chance of doing well. Geronimo has the backing of Apache and IBM. The best (for job demmand anyway) OS brand and commercial brand.

    This is not to say that JOnAS is not the greatest thing since slice bread.

    I hear JOnAS is really popular in Europe. Is this true?


    Hibernate 387 --- just for reference
    Spring 344
    Struts 1468
    JDOM 14
    DOM4J 0 --- I used to use JDOM but now use Dom4j
  37. Dice says this:
    Job Demmand:
       WebSphere 2,500
       WebLogic 2,084
       Tomcat 650
       JBoss 457
       JRun 64
       Resin 39
       Orion 7
       Geronimo 3
       OracleAS 3
       JOnAS 2
       Pramati 0
       ObjectWeb 0

    Geronimo is not even officially released, and there is more demmand for it than JOnAS (in the U.S.A. market).

    Just for the sake of curiosity I did search on Dice after your posting and the result is:

    Geronimo related.
    1 post was from IBM , asking The
    Gluecode Community Programs Manager !?!?
    the 3 other posts were asking for a SW engineer and in the description along with all the buzzwords and all possible skills
    there was "..web application servers (e.g., JBoss, Geronimo , BEA WLS, IBM Websphere); "

    So now how can you say there is more demand in Geronimo than Jonas ?
    You simply do not know what you are talking about...

    BTW do you Dice as much as you Google to get a clue about the World around you ?
  38. Dice says this:Job Demmand:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WebSphere 2,500&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WebLogic 2,084&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Tomcat 650&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;JBoss 457&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;JRun 64&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Resin 39&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Orion 7&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Geronimo 3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;OracleAS 3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;JOnAS 2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Pramati 0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;ObjectWeb 0Geronimo is not even officially released, and there is more demmand for it than JOnAS (in the U.S.A. market).
    Just for the sake of curiosity I did search on Dice after your posting and the result is:Geronimo related.1 post was from IBM , asking TheGluecode Community Programs Manager !?!?the 3 other posts were asking for a SW engineer and in the description along with all the buzzwords and all possible skills there was "..web application servers (e.g., JBoss, Geronimo , BEA WLS, IBM Websphere); "So now how can you say there is more demand in Geronimo than Jonas ? You simply do not know what you are talking about...BTW do you Dice as much as you Google to get a clue about the World around you ?

    You simply do not know what you are talking about...
    BTW do you Dice as much as you Google to get a clue about the World around you ?

    Since you asked:

    Why yes I do. I also read the Economist, Wall Street Journal, Business Week, NewsWeek, Information Week, Time, and watch FOX news and CNN. I am a news junky. I find it is good to read several points of view. I am a big fan of biographies. This year I've read about Ghengis Khan, Alexander the Great and Teddy Rossevelt. I've also read 7 or so books on current events, two books on the civil war, one book on Admiral Nelson's fight against France and Spain (Trafalgar), one book on the Alamo, one book on French-Indian War, Fight Club & Choke, several star war books, two books on marketing, and one book on time management (this is not to mention many technical books that I read). When I am not writing code, blogging, posting, being a father & husband, I am reading about the world. I consider myself well read.

    Mark my words, this is not rocket science, if IBM and Apache back Geronimo, it has a really good shot at doing well. Certainly, it will do better than JOnAS (in the U.S.). Geronimo is not on my radar yet b/c no client of mine uses it. I do have clients who use JBoss, WebSphere and WebLogic.
    You simply do not know what you are talking about...

    Based on what? My point was JOnAS has very little market share in the U.S. If this is wrong, prove it!

    I state the obvious and you respond as if I insulted your mother's honor. Chill out.
  39. Well read???[ Go to top ]

    I also read the Economist, Wall Street Journal, Business Week, NewsWeek, Information Week, Time, and watch FOX news and CNN.
    Fox News? Don't say more, that explains everything! :-)

    PS: are you trying to get biled again?
  40. Again?[ Go to top ]

    PS: are you trying to get biled again

    Again? You mean he stopped for a while. My name seems to make it on his blog a lot. It has slowed down a bit, but I am sure he will pick it back up at some point.

    A lot more talented and smarter people than me have been on Hani's blog. I am not sure why I am on his RADAR so much. Maybe b/c I was dumb enough to fight back.

    BTW What did your post have to do with this issue?

    Most of your posts seem to be about how other posts are off topic of inappropiate. Not just mine either. You went after S J M too.

    Alan I apologize if I got your dander up. I just wanted to opine that S J M comments seemed on target to me. I am not anti-JBoss or anti-Geronimo or anti-JOnAS.

    I forgot to mention I read Guns, Germs and Steel. That book was awesome. I could not put it down. I am an open-minded guy. I like to hear all sides of any issue.
  41. Again?[ Go to top ]

    Most of your posts seem to be about how other posts are off topic of inappropiate. Not just mine either. You went after S J M too.Alan I apologize if I got your dander up. I just wanted to opine that S J M comments seemed on target to me. I am not anti-JBoss or anti-Geronimo or anti-JOnAS. I forgot to mention I read Guns, Germs and Steel. That book was awesome. I could not put it down. I am an open-minded guy. I like to hear all sides of any issue.
    Duh! You are confused, I am not Alan Potsky! You get a bonus point for reading Guns, Germs and Steel however. I just don't understand how a guy who read that book can possibly tolerate Fox News, but let's not drift too far off topic.
  42. Again?[ Go to top ]

    Most of your posts seem to be about how other posts are off topic of inappropiate. Not just mine either. You went after S J M too.Alan I apologize if I got your dander up. I just wanted to opine that S J M comments seemed on target to me. I am not anti-JBoss or anti-Geronimo or anti-JOnAS. I forgot to mention I read Guns, Germs and Steel. That book was awesome. I could not put it down. I am an open-minded guy. I like to hear all sides of any issue.
    Duh! You are confused, I am not Alan Potsky! You get a bonus point for reading Guns, Germs and Steel however. I just don't understand how a guy who read that book can possibly tolerate Fox News, but let's not drift too far off topic.

    Yes. DOH! I did get you two confused. The names are in a small font. My comments still apply. Application server competition is good for developers. I hope Geronimo does well.
  43. Again?[ Go to top ]

    I have tremendous respect for the folks up here on the theserverside.com which I have been on since erly 2000. After I read a book by ED Roman on EJBs :-) I never looked back.

    I think however we could be seeing the "Innovators Dilema" hitting the app servers industries through "disruptive innovation" coming through technology such as Spring and Rails. Forcing a rethink on some of the things that have become dear to us. The reaction should be to learn from these and seek to get better. I think you have to be dilligent and see what the disruptive innovation is doing to you from the low end. Same way JBoss was disruptive to the big J2EE vendors is the same way the Spring and the Rails of the world are disruptive to the status quo.

    Windows, disprupted IBM mainframes and Linux is disrupting windows and it goes on. THere can be nothing special about what you are using today, in fact you must expect competition because not to would be folly.


    A great read is "The Innovators Dilema" by Clayton M. Christensen.

    Our industry is being disrupted and its perfectly normal in our business. Competition is a good thing. my 2 cents.
  44. Again?[ Go to top ]

    Windows, disprupted IBM mainframes

    Not quite, but you get the point I am trying to make.
  45. Re: Again: Competition is good[ Go to top ]

    S J M wrote:
    ...Competion is good...

    I feel much the same way.

    And said as much here:

    http://jroller.com/page/RickHigh?entry=jboss_hibernate_and_spring_guys

    here:

    http://jroller.com/page/RickHigh?entry=jboss_microcontainer_ioc_vs_spring

    and here:

    http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t49723.html

    I really enjoy using Spring, JSF and Hibernate (on any app server or Tomcat). However, I would love to have time to look into Seam (EJB3, JSF, Workflow?), Rails, JBoss Microcontainer etc. But, I am busy (just like most everyone else) developing, and helping run a company (not to mention being a father and husband). If something is new and sounds great it goes on my mental list, but I may not actually look at it for 6 months to a year. There are just not enough hours in the day.

    I am independent.

    Compeition is good. The more points of view the better. It is good to see how different projects attack the same problem. It is a learning experience.


    My List includes (in order of likelyhood of using it)
    WebSphere Portal (need it for work)
    AspectJ (need it for a project at work)
    Ajax (may need it at work)
    Rails (don't need it for day job, but want to understand it to learn from it)
    Maven 2.0 (may need it to create a build script for a large project that does not have one; liked Maven 1.x)
    Spring JSF Workflow (not sure why I need this, but want to know)
    Seam (ditto, sounds cool, but what is it really)
    Facelets (I understand this, but not sure I have clients that will use it.)
    And so on....

    Choice is good.
  46. Re: Again: Competition is good[ Go to top ]

    Facelets (I understand this, but not sure I have clients that will use it.)

    And so on....Choice is good.

    Why you gotta put a man down? ;-)
  47. Dice polls[ Go to top ]

    Dice says this:Job Demmand:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WebSphere 2,500&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WebLogic 2,084&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Tomcat 650&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;JBoss 457&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;JRun 64&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Resin 39&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Orion 7&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Geronimo 3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;OracleAS 3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;JOnAS 2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Pramati 0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;ObjectWeb 0

    Rolling Dice (pun intended) is not necessarily the greatest indicator of how many users a server has. It might be a indicator of how hard a server is to use, though, and looking at these numbers that would seem just about right :-)
  48. Dice says this:Job Demmand:&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;WebSphere 2,500&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;WebLogic 2,084&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;Tomcat 650&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;JBoss 457&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;JRun 64&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;Resin 39&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;Orion 7&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;Geronimo 3&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;OracleAS 3&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;JOnAS 2&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;Pramati 0&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;ObjectWeb 0
    Rolling Dice (pun intended) is not necessarily the greatest indicator of how many users a server has. It might be a indicator of how hard a server is to use, though, and looking at these numbers that would seem just about right :-)

    Based on that logic Pramati and JOnAS must be super easy to use. :o)

    Where can I sign up to get Pramati and JOnAS certified?

    All jokes aside, for the last four years I've been traveling doing consulting, mentoring and training. In addition, I send other people to traveling, mentoring and training. I can tell you I run into JBoss, WebSphere and WebLogic and practically no other application server.

    (You do see a lot of Tomcat too.)

    Four years ago, it seemed like everyone was using the WebLogic application server. Now it seems like equal parts: 1/3 JBoss, 1/3 WebSphere and 1/3 WebLogic.

    Once I ran into Sybase Jaguar and one time I ran into a shop that used OracleAS. I've never met anyone that works with JOnAS.

    When I was Director of Development for a software shop we used Resin and loved it. We were early adopter of EJB 2.x. This was before I found out about the joys of Hibernate.
  49. Hi Rick,

    <quote>
    JOnAS has had years (at least 5 according to you) to make a dent in the U.S. market. It has not done so. Do you think it will now b/c of the "JBoss/Rickard Issue"? It won't.
    This is not to say that JOnAS is not the greatest thing since slice bread. I hear JOnAS is really popular in Europe. Is this true?
    </quote>

    AFAIK, JBoss is generally still more popular than JOnAS or Enhydra Enterprise in Europe. Although slowly but surely JOnAS/EE will get more popular (you know why ;-)). I think the point is that ObjectWeb is more interested in the technology itself, the quality of their products and working together in community instead of boasting around... It's just another style of Open Source. So if you look e.g. at JOTM, only some people know that this product is implemented by ObjectWeb members.

    Anyway, as I said, you all have the choice.

    Cheers,
    Lofi.
  50. Hi Rick,<quote>JOnAS has had years (at least 5 according to you) to make a dent in the U.S. market. It has not done so. Do you think it will now b/c of the "JBoss/Rickard Issue"? It won't.This is not to say that JOnAS is not the greatest thing since slice bread. I hear JOnAS is really popular in Europe. Is this true?</quote>AFAIK, JBoss is generally still more popular than JOnAS or Enhydra Enterprise in Europe. Although slowly but surely JOnAS/EE will get more popular (you know why ;-)). I think the point is that ObjectWeb is more interested in the technology itself, the quality of their products and working together in community instead of boasting around... It's just another style of Open Source. So if you look e.g. at JOTM, only some people know that this product is implemented by ObjectWeb members.Anyway, as I said, you all have the choice.Cheers,Lofi.

    Lofi,

    Thanks for pointing this out. ObjectWeb produced JOTM. Good point. Maybe I will check out ObjectWeb. Thanks for taking the time to explain the above to me.

    --Rick Hightower
  51. Some days ago I could read on the release note the absence of CMP / EJB 2.1 and clustering.Does this means certification ignores those elements? Or does this one includes all those?For folks looking to boycott JBoss, there is a robust and quiet mature implementation backed by a consortium whose name is ObjectWeb' Jonas - never tried it though but I don't really see why everyone is impatient to look at Geronimo as the sole JBoss alternative in OSS app servers landscape when there are one for years.Can someone comment? Is that just brand and marketing?
    +1 !!!
  52. what i wonder is if ejb is implemented with ojb. Like ejb is implemented with hibernate in jboss. Then i understand why they go so fast. Everything was already there they just had to wrap it up. Ojb rocks! It is beautyfull in it's simplicity.
  53. Missing class?[ Go to top ]

    I just downloaded M5 and executed startup.bat. Started without any problems but when I try to get to the console I got this:

    java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/exolab/castor/xml/ValidationException

    I hate asking stupid questions but I don't see anything that talks about manually getting extra jars (like castor)

    Patrick
  54. Reading this thread when I see such smart people displaying smallness and meanness, don't know which feeling is dominent: sadness, pity or humour!