Oracle Buying Sun

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News: Oracle Buying Sun

  1. Oracle Buying Sun (94 messages)

    Here's the Oracle link on the story: http://www.oracle.com/sun/

    Threaded Messages (94)

  2. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    So God help us! Jan
  3. Answer a poll in LinkedIn: http://tinyurl.com/c5fuo7
  4. NetBeans[ Go to top ]

    Is this going to very likely be the end of NetBeans or could it not continue as a community project on its own. For me, it's the best IDE out there and I would be disappointed to see it disappear.
  5. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    It's not as bad as IBM buying Sun. I just had a conversation over this with a colleague and he was wondering what is going to happening to MySQL.
  6. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    It's not as bad as IBM buying Sun. I just had a conversation over this with a colleague and he was wondering what is going to happening to MySQL.
    they will kill MYSQL for sure.
  7. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    It's not as bad as IBM buying Sun. I just had a conversation over this with a colleague and he was wondering what is going to happening to MySQL.


    they will kill MYSQL for sure.
    I second that opinion. I have no proof, but that's what makes the most business sense. I'm sure people will fork mysql, but the question I ask is this, "how many people have the skills and understand the code well enough to really push forward?" At minimum, it's going to take a year or more for new developers to come up to speed with the codebase. Then they have to have make a ton of mistakes before they're making significant progress.
  8. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    It's not as bad as IBM buying Sun. I just had a conversation over this with a colleague and he was wondering what is going to happening to MySQL.


    they will kill MYSQL for sure.


    I second that opinion. I have no proof, but that's what makes the most business sense.

    I'm sure people will fork mysql, but the question I ask is this, "how many people have the skills and understand the code well enough to really push forward?" At minimum, it's going to take a year or more for new developers to come up to speed with the codebase. Then they have to have make a ton of mistakes before they're making significant progress.
    I am sure they will change the license model, so that you have a community edition (crappy experimental version full of bugs), and enterprise version. Right now, community edition and enterprise edition shares the same codebase, I am pretty sure it will be different now. Similar to what they have done with redhat and fredora. I think they will also remove clustering support from community edition. This is a sad day for mysql users.
  9. Re: Re: Oracle Buying Sun in news[ Go to top ]

    No way. MySQL and Java are GPL'd. If Oracle tries to kill MySQL, you can rest assured it will be forked and maintained by someone else. MySQL has a massive install base - Oracle would be stupid to cut that out from under themselves, and even if they are stupid enough to do that, some reputable company will come in, take the GPL'd source, fork it, and maintain it under a different name and cash in on the massive community that would use it.
  10. GPL'd by one company[ Go to top ]

    Right: Both of MySQL and Java are GPL'd Not exactly: Both of them have only one code owner, Sun (and MySQL AB). MySQL never accepts any code from developers outside so it can be distributed in dual-license style. Java has just been GPL'd for few months, I guess only few developers spent their time with it. Forking is possible but it will require a long long time until everything is set ready and go on.
  11. Re: GPL'd by one company[ Go to top ]

    Forking is possible but it will require a long long time until everything is set ready and go on.
    Talking about Java and forking in the same sentence sounds quite scary to me.
  12. MySql will be just fine[ Go to top ]

    Will Oracle alienate countless mysql users? Oracle will continue to let mysql flourish at the expense of PostgreSql. Oracle will provide an upgrade path to whatever product / service plan they may want to offer enterprise users of mysql. The best way to contain your competition is to own it. Well done Oracle. This is Oracle's best move yet since ever. Buying BEA was their most stupid. Oracle can now deploy your "enterprise appliance" in no time. I'm finally happy to see java go out of Sun's hands. Sun was a good steward of java/jvm only; it was terrible with everything else (think JSF, JavaFX, etc.). Yet java is stable now. Oracle is more a software company than Sun ever was. My only concern with Oracle is bloatware (which is a business model for them) and time to market (very slow). What I'd have Oracle do is take groovy and make it first class within the stack - long live Java for another 15 years.
  13. NetBeans?[ Go to top ]

    JDeveloper? Eclipse+OSGi? or NetBeans!!
  14. I think we should start 6 separate Threads on this aquisition: 1) Java and Related Technologies 2) Application Server 3) DataBase 4) IDE 5) Hardware 6) Overall comments Anyone can do that?
  15. Re: NetBeans?[ Go to top ]

    JDeveloper? Eclipse+OSGi? or NetBeans!!
    Oracle's announced "strategic" IDE is JDeveloper (which is actually pretty good these days). However they do create Oracle-related packages for Eclipse: http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/enterprise-pack-for-eclipse/files/OEPE_ds_11.pdf
  16. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Well considering how many of the mysql founders have already quit their job at Sun, a fork backed by them and a few others could very well succeed. Oracle killing off mysql would mean a lot of unemployed mysql experts. I doubt, they are going to sit and wait for Oracle to do something. All it takes is a critical mass of developer frustration and a new OSS project will be born out of the ashes of mysql. So, Oracle could do the stupid thing but on the other hand most of their money comes from support and consultancy. Mysql support and consultancy is a great market to own. If Oracle is smart about this, it will recognize that they now own the low end and the high end database market. Arguably, most of the money is in the low end these days.
  17. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Well considering how many of the mysql founders have already quit their job at Sun, a fork backed by them and a few others could very well succeed. Oracle killing off mysql would mean a lot of unemployed mysql experts. I doubt, they are going to sit and wait for Oracle to do something. All it takes is a critical mass of developer frustration and a new OSS project will be born out of the ashes of mysql.

    So, Oracle could do the stupid thing but on the other hand most of their money comes from support and consultancy. Mysql support and consultancy is a great market to own. If Oracle is smart about this, it will recognize that they now own the low end and the high end database market. Arguably, most of the money is in the low end these days.
    better alternative would be to support postgres and have people join that project.
  18. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    It's not as bad as IBM buying Sun. I just had a conversation over this with a colleague and he was wondering what is going to happening to MySQL.


    they will kill MYSQL for sure.
    I'm not so sure about it. I read a very interesting article here: http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/what-if-oracle-bought-sun-microsystems-859
  19. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    It's not as bad as IBM buying Sun. I just had a conversation over this with a colleague and he was wondering what is going to happening to MySQL.


    they will kill MYSQL for sure.
    If they're smart they'll add features to MySQL to add a migration path to Oracle databases.
  20. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    It's not as bad as IBM buying Sun. I just had a conversation over this with a colleague and he was wondering what is going to happening to MySQL.


    they will kill MYSQL for sure.


    If they're smart they'll add features to MySQL to add a migration path to Oracle databases.
    I am dating myself here, but as an old PowerBuilder developer, I remember Sybase (a significant database company at the time) buying out Powersoft. Powersoft had a portable DB product called Watcom SQL. Sybase has converted this to "SQLAnywhere" which has proven successful for them. Oracle will more than likely see the positives of MySQL and inject health into this product to further that market - but I would anticipate their making some changes to create a more successful profit model. Oracle entering the hardware world will be an interesting thing to watch. What will they do in the market crowded by HP, DELL and IBM? Lastly, what they will do with Java/JEE is anyone's guess, but I would guess their investment in this platform is large enough with OC4J and WebLogic that they will spend a lot of energy to see this succeed. With a large base of developers and a large install base, I cannot imagine them doing anything to upset this group with any major shifts in policy or practices. That would be stupid (at the least.) The contributions to the Java Dev community (and the Dev Community at large) alone by the open source crowd (SEAM, Hibernate, Spring, Struts, Tomcat, blah blah blah) and the buzz they create on top of java (encouraging even more installations of servers) should be enough to keep things going down the current path. Don't disappoint us Oracle!
  21. Bad news for Glassfish?[ Go to top ]

    I Wonder if these are bad news for Glassfish because Oracle already has too many application servers: OC4J and WebLogic
  22. I Wonder if these are bad news for Glassfish because Oracle already has too many application servers: OC4J and WebLogic
    Oracle may keep Glassfish to fight RedHat/JBoss. Other reason: as part of the JEE JSR expert group, they have still to release a RI.
  23. Oracle may keep Glassfish to fight RedHat/JBoss.
    Good reason.
    Other reason: as part of the JEE JSR expert group, they have still to release a RI.
    But JEE JSR is now controlled by Oracle :(
  24. Re: Bad news for Glassfish?[ Go to top ]

    WebLogic 10gR3 alrady wraps Glassfish for its web services stack anyway, so I imagine Oracle would have WebLogic subsume it completely. Or they could maintain it like they have BerkeleyDB or ADF Faces.
  25. Oracle stack VS Microsoft stack[ Go to top ]

    It's almost a complete line by line match between server vs desktop: Solaris vs Windows Open Office vs Office Oracle DB / MySql vs SQL Server Java, EE vs C#, .NET JavaFX vs Silverlight Did MS see it coming?
  26. Re: Oracle stack VS Microsoft stack[ Go to top ]

    And not to forget the hardware. So it is actually a more complete stack than MS has to offer. IBM probably comes closer...
  27. It's almost a complete line by line match between server vs desktop:

    Solaris vs Windows
    Open Office vs Office
    Oracle DB / MySql vs SQL Server
    Java, EE vs C#, .NET
    JavaFX vs Silverlight

    Did MS see it coming?
    There is nothing equivalent for MS desktop. Oracle is still too high for SMB where MS is good at and MYSQL is not good enough to take on SQL Server at SMB; at any rate MYSQL will be killed. Of course, we have other things with MS like Exchange & Outlook, Sharepoint Portal (maybe weblogic portal but I doubt J2EE portals are comparable to MS offerings), BizTalk. Anyway, MS rules in SMB and they are hardly there in enterprises, except for their .NET, Exchange & Outlook.
  28. Did MS see it coming?
    It sounds as they didn't (if we have to trust the news)... http://uk.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUKTRE53J3GX20090420
  29. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Here's the Oracle link on the story:

    http://www.oracle.com/sun/
    I think IBM would have been a better suitor. They would not have to kill MySQL for sure. I think it's pretty much end of Open Source if Sun is gone. I would rather prefer Sun getting bought out at the cost of loosing open source movement than Sun getting into more trouble and their employees without jobs in a bad economy.
  30. I think IBM would have been a better suitor. They would not have to kill MySQL for sure.
    You might try to remember what IBM have done in the past. There's this database called Informix which IBM bought. You don't hear to much about that database.
  31. I think IBM would have been a better suitor. They would not have to kill MySQL for sure.

    You might try to remember what IBM have done in the past. There's this database called Informix which IBM bought. You don't hear to much about that database.
    Yes, but MySQL is different. It is open source and has a large community devoted to it and a lot of people really care. MySQL is also a popular choice with PHP & Ruby. I do agree that MySQL is unlike to prosper under IBM. Maybe Ignorance is same as death - think Lotus Notes!
  32. You don't hear to much about that database.
    Informix is alive an well. It's updated on regular based and today you can run it on the cloud too. Please take a look at IBM Informix on DeveloperWorks
  33. I think IBM would have been a better suitor. They would not have to kill MySQL for sure.

    You might try to remember what IBM have done in the past. There's this database called Informix which IBM bought. You don't hear to much about that database.
    IBM bought it with the intention of subsuming the technology and customer base into DB2. However, once they got their hands on it, they figured out that it's quite viable as a product and it's still going strong. If you go to IBM developerWorks, there's no longer a "DB2" section. It's the "Information Management" section, and there's a solid reason for that.
  34. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    I think IBM would have been a better suitor.
    Perhaps for the hardware part of Sun .. On the other hand, if Java is something that you're interested in seeing do well for the long term, consider how well Oracle has executed with its software acquisitions over the past several years. For example, both WebLogic and Tuxedo are doing significantly better at Oracle than they did at BEA, both in terms of market adoption and investment, not to mention the love they receive from the company that now owns them ;-) Peace, Cameron Purdy Oracle Coherence: Data Grid for Java, .NET and C++
  35. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    I think IBM would have been a better suitor.


    Perhaps for the hardware part of Sun ..

    On the other hand, if Java is something that you're interested in seeing do well for the long term, consider how well Oracle has executed with its software acquisitions over the past several years. For example, both WebLogic and Tuxedo are doing significantly better at Oracle than they did at BEA, both in terms of market adoption and investment, not to mention the love they receive from the company that now owns them ;-)

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Oracle Coherence: Data Grid for Java, .NET and C++
    You see WebLogic should be dominating the app server space, but they lost so much to IBM already. Of course, thet happened even before Oracle acquired it. I'm not sure if Oracle is good at digesting everything it buys. I don't know what it's doing with Peoplesoft, for example. I do agree that Java has a better future under Oracle care. But, their harware business and MySql is going to go under the covers. Anyway, it's better to see a better Oracle than a stronger IBM; that's really worse. Of course for those folks at Sun working in the endangered business lines, the future isn't bright in the troubled economy.
  36. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    For example, both WebLogic and Tuxedo are doing significantly better at Oracle than they did at BEA, both in terms of market adoption and investment...
    Several small companies that I know of have taken action to migrate away from BEA's products after the acquisition. On the other hand, the low end market probably isn't where Oracle want to focus since open source app servers are getting better and better and more difficult to compete with.
  37. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    I think IBM would have been a better suitor.


    Perhaps for the hardware part of Sun ..
    Doubtful — the Niagra line of processors was poised as a Power-killer, no reason for IBM to keep that alive. They probably would have come up with a "mostly painless" migration path for SPARC customers, but there was really no reason for them to keep developing two processor architectures for basically the same market.
    For example, both WebLogic and Tuxedo are doing significantly better at Oracle than they did at BEA, both in terms of market adoption and investment, not to mention the love they receive from the company that now owns them ;-)
    Maybe we should ask some of the JD Edwards users about Oracle's love. They're the red-headed stepchild of the PeopleSoft adoption...
  38. And the rest of java...[ Go to top ]

    I guess its not surprising that everyone here is focused on J2EE and MySQL, but there is more to Sun/Java than that. namely J2ME, CDC, JavaCard, Blue-ray, etc. I have my doubts about Oracle having any kind of a clue as to what to do with these markets. This is a great pity as Java is quite ubiquitous on mobile devices and there have been massive improvements in mobile JVMs over the last couple of years. Ultimately, I think, a great deal of the java pie is about to disappear for good. shame
  39. Re: And the rest of java...[ Go to top ]

    After all the US Government did for AIG, why where they blind to Sun? I blame them.
  40. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    I don't know. I saw what Oracle did to Orion when they turned it into OC4J and I know from some extensive experience that it wasn't pretty. I guess they haven't had enough time yet to "integrate" Weblogic into their product line. And by integrate, I mean unnecessarily tie into all sorts of proprietary Oracle hooks that offer no utility to the customer or developer and only serve to help out Oracle. So now I guess instead of a modularized Glassfish 3, where you pick and choose what parts you want, and for free, I can get a completely overwrought version, with a high price tag and about 10 different components that offer absolutely no value but completely crap up the installation and day to day operation of the system (WebCache, Portal, etc. ad nauseum). This is not good news to me.
  41. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    I think IBM would have been a better suitor.


    Perhaps for the hardware part of Sun ..

    On the other hand, if Java is something that you're interested in seeing do well for the long term, consider how well Oracle has executed with its software acquisitions over the past several years. For example, both WebLogic and Tuxedo are doing significantly better at Oracle than they did at BEA, both in terms of market adoption and investment, not to mention the love they receive from the company that now owns them ;-)

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Oracle Coherence: Data Grid for Java, .NET and C++
    Cameron, I know we don't really know your honest opinion, but Oracle definitely has a way to shove products down corporate throats. Whether that's due to the quality of a product or sales is very subjective. I think what most folks here worry about is the open source nature and echosystem of java and how oracle will play with that. Will they honestly participate in that and hopefully better than Sun did, or will they chose the direction for java that's best for them based on the product lines that will benefit from certain features. I'm really concerned more about the open source nature of java and mysql, then how these products due with the bureaucratic customer base that Oracle has. Java and MySQL benefit lost of small businesses and startups that either can't or are not willing to pay for these products. How will this effect them. Will they use Java and MySQL now as a lure into their overpriced products?
  42. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Even as a notorious Oracle hater, I could not be more happy to hear this than I am. Java did well even though it was not open source, and ending its race in Oracle's hands is not a bad destiny for Sun. Though IBM could have been a good choice, too. As for MySQL, well... PostGreSQL is better!
  43. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Yeah... just like Oracle did with Solarmetric Kodo JDO which was bought by Bea and was loved a lot by Bea but now lost somewhere in Oracle space....
  44. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Yeah... just like Oracle did with Solarmetric Kodo JDO which was bought by Bea and was loved a lot by Bea but now lost somewhere in Oracle space....
    No, you're wrong. BEA put Kodo rapidly in the oblivion. This was attested by posts in KODO forum on BEA site. Don't forget that BEA voted no in JDO 2.0 Public Review Ballot. Kodo was the living demonstration that it was far more efficient to have a simple webapp with presentation+POJOs, with JDO as a persistence engine, rather setup an entity bean hell. I don't think it was a good alternative from BEA POV. Guido
  45. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Here's the Oracle link on the story:

    http://www.oracle.com/sun/


    I think IBM would have been a better suitor. They would not have to kill MySQL for sure.

    I think it's pretty much end of Open Source if Sun is gone. I would rather prefer Sun getting bought out at the cost of loosing open source movement than Sun getting into more trouble and their employees without jobs in a bad economy.
    How sure are you that IBM will not kill MySQL? They have their own RDBMS as well - DB2.
  46. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Here's the Oracle link on the story:

    http://www.oracle.com/sun/


    I think IBM would have been a better suitor. They would not have to kill MySQL for sure.

    I think it's pretty much end of Open Source if Sun is gone. I would rather prefer Sun getting bought out at the cost of loosing open source movement than Sun getting into more trouble and their employees without jobs in a bad economy.


    How sure are you that IBM will not kill MySQL? They have their own RDBMS as well - DB2.
    If MySQL was very popular on Mainframes/AIX then maybe IBM will worry. I think IBM would have seen it as strategic tool at SMB market they are trying hard to get in with their express editions. IMHO, MySQL would have been relatively safe in the hands of IBM. Also, IBM listens a bit to Open Source and used to it. Oracle, I doubt they would do much.
  47. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Here's the Oracle link on the story:

    http://www.oracle.com/sun/


    I think IBM would have been a better suitor. They would not have to kill MySQL for sure.

    I think it's pretty much end of Open Source if Sun is gone. I would rather prefer Sun getting bought out at the cost of loosing open source movement than Sun getting into more trouble and their employees without jobs in a bad economy.
    Come on, let's not be so dramatic. Even if Oracle kills MySQL there's MariaDB: http://askmonty.org/wiki/index.php/MariaDB. Sun isn't that big of a deal to open source. Let's all calm down.
  48. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Here's the Oracle link on the story:

    http://www.oracle.com/sun/


    I think IBM would have been a better suitor. They would not have to kill MySQL for sure.

    I think it's pretty much end of Open Source if Sun is gone. I would rather prefer Sun getting bought out at the cost of loosing open source movement than Sun getting into more trouble and their employees without jobs in a bad economy.


    Come on, let's not be so dramatic. Even if Oracle kills MySQL there's MariaDB: http://askmonty.org/wiki/index.php/MariaDB.

    Sun isn't that big of a deal to open source. Let's all calm down.
    I broadly agree with you. However, Java as a language has been a big deal for open source community - is there another language with the depth of tools, frameworks, ide's and whatever that Java Open Source community have produced? The worry is obviously around Java. Oracle will not worry about how Open Source gains.. after all who paid for the 7+ billion?
  49. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Here's the Oracle link on the story:

    http://www.oracle.com/sun/


    I think IBM would have been a better suitor. They would not have to kill MySQL for sure.

    I think it's pretty much end of Open Source if Sun is gone. I would rather prefer Sun getting bought out at the cost of loosing open source movement than Sun getting into more trouble and their employees without jobs in a bad economy.


    Come on, let's not be so dramatic. Even if Oracle kills MySQL there's MariaDB: http://askmonty.org/wiki/index.php/MariaDB.

    Sun isn't that big of a deal to open source. Let's all calm down.


    I broadly agree with you. However, Java as a language has been a big deal for open source community - is there another language with the depth of tools, frameworks, ide's and whatever that Java Open Source community have produced? The worry is obviously around Java. Oracle will not worry about how Open Source gains.. after all who paid for the 7+ billion?
    I share some of your concern. I'm not sure what the implications would be if Oracle attempted to close Java again. It's been GPL'd so there's the possibility of it branching. Personally I think Oracle would be stupid to do so. They have a more ways to make money off of owning Java than Sun does. Heavy handed tactics might make quick money but would destroy Java. I think Ellison's rivalry with MS (Bill Gates) is going to drive him to take the long view on Java. As I mentioned above, I think Oracle would be prudent to make clear what their intentions with Java to preempt FUD from eating away at the value of their purchase.
  50. Looking forward to.....[ Go to top ]

    Java SE 1.6.0.15.0.1.2.3.11 :-)
  51. Postgresql[ Go to top ]

    This is a day where I'm really glad I jumped into Postgresql when Sun bought MySQL. Great decision! Postgresql rocks!! Great community! I'm really happy with it!
  52. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    I don't see anyone talking about what this means for Java (the language and VM.) Will things continue as they have? Will Oracle complete the open sourcing of Java? There are a lot of things that were up in the air about the future of Java. I don't know that we can assume that things will be the same under Oracle. I personally think Oracle should come out and say exactly what they plan to do with Java. The fear of what might happen could be detrimental to the value of their investment.
  53. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    MySQL is GPL, and has already been forked (twice I think, both my ex-members of the MySQL company). The detail is that these forks are GPL only. They can not be sold to companies that might want to use a non-GPL database. Only Oracle can now give you a non-GPL licensed MySQL installation. This was why Sun bought MySQL in the first place. In the beginning, Sun was put focus on PostGres. Helping it run better on Solaris, tuning it, providing resource, etc. But, in the end, Sun could not "buy" PostGres as no one actually "owned" it. There was no IP to gain exclusivity over, unlike MySQL. MySQL maintained all of the copyrights to their code, and thus could relicense it all they like. Oracle can very well "kill" MySQL, but I doubt they will. The future of Glassfish is going to be very interesting. GF has been on the coat tails of WebLogic in many ways, making great inroads in quality and performance. If Oracle has some commitment to make GFv3 the JEE 6 reference platform, that may well simply be as far as it goes. Keeping it solidly in the "reference" are rather than tuning and cleaning it up and making it perform better and better. That effort will go in to BEA, and not GF. I don't know how aggressive Oracle will be with Java as a whole. They're committed to Java as a runtime platform for a lot of their software, but they may not necessarily have the R&D drive and fervor that Sun had to keep pushing the envelope. The only people that will hold Oracles feet to the fire will be MS, as they're the only real competitors left. This is why I'm generally disappointed in the Oracle acquisition. The markets Oracle are in are really very mature, especially in IT terms. So, I fear that Oracle is going to focus solely on market share and status quo rather than innovation. We've seen how the major app servers are slow on the uptic at adopting new technologies (look at the legacy of JDK 4 for instance). And these areas are Oracles key focus. I fear a lot more Sun engineers are going to have a lot of free time on their hands in 6 months.
  54. And that's what the whole Java deal was about. I would not be surprised if your next Java download came with no license at all, that is Oracle's way to say "Call our sales rep if you want to use it in production". The only positive thing about this is that IBM buying Sun would have been a much worse alternative. Regards, Slava Imeshev
  55. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Wonder how IBM will react to this? So, IBM will start paying boat loads of J2EE license fees to Oracle? Hmm.. Something will break, over the years. And what happens to JRockit? Ashwin (http://javaforu.blogspot.com).
  56. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    So JBoss will become OBoss?
  57. I just finished listening to the Oracle/Sun Address to investors. Oracle outlined a bright and profitable future lead by Java, Oracle, Solaris, and Sun's hardware lineup. The strategy outlined by Oracle was to create a native technology stack from the hardware all the way up through to the app servers, where Java, Solaris, and Oracle were tuned to work seamlessly and out of the box thus eliminating nagging installation and interoperable issues. They now have the option of tailoring/deploying custom integrated hardware and software deployments for vertical industries like telecoms, banking, and health care. They did not however mention anything about Glassfish, Netbeans, and MySQl, or even any of the other sun Software middle-ware products. Oracle instead touted its strong investments and market performance in the app server and middle-ware space with Weblogic, and its fusion middle-ware products. Overall I think this is a good deal for Java as opposed to the IBM deal. There would have been more blood and guts everywhere with IBM vivisecting most of the great Sun tech including Solaris. Oracle has a better track record of snapping up techs and melding them together. Oracle acquiring Sun seems more of a compliment and augmentation to Oracle's tech portfolio, and Oracle may give the Sun engineering team more freedom to continue doing what they were doing in terms of R&D on the Java, Hardware and OS side. Sun is better at engineering rather than business matters. So Oracle can take care of the latter gap. Suddenly, Microsoft, Dell, HP, and IBM look smaller.
  58. I don't really see this as being threatening for Java as a open product. Surely it is obvious to Oracle that it is the vendor-agnostic approach taken by Java that is its only long-term advantage over other languages. And, quite frankly, some of the discussions around Java 6/7 made me feel that Sun was no longer such a good steward of the language - there was too much nonsense going on (open-sourcing Java, generics, JavaScript engines, 'closures'). The feeling was growing on me that the time for the language had passed ... perhaps this will bring new, more realistic, focus to its development. As for losing Glassfish, NetBeans, et. al., while we all have our favorites - I used to like JINI ;-) - pruning the tree of some of the incomplete or redundant efforts would be, in my opinion, a Very Good Thing. It would be tough for me to argue the position that the Java world needs more choices for app server or IDE - fewer, better choices seems more useful to me. No doubt Oracle will continue to provide Oracle-specific hooks into Java and their offerings, but they've been doing that for years. Not that any of this matters - it is done now.
  59. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    We had enough discussion about the SUN's product and it's future, but no body seems to mentioned that it will be end of one of the most innovative company of our time, and it is kind of sad to see them going down like this. Doesn't matter what you think about Sun and how successful they have been in their business strategies, their technical innovation are unmatched and rocked our generation like no one else. Kodos to SUN.
  60. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    We had enough discussion about the SUN's product and it's future, but no body seems to mentioned that it will be end of one of the most innovative company of our time, and it is kind of sad to see them going down like this. Doesn't matter what you think about Sun and how successful they have been in their business strategies, their technical innovation are unmatched and rocked our generation like no one else.

    Kodos to SUN.
    I totally agree.
  61. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    +1 Sun did a good thing here for a lot of people.
  62. Kudos to SUN[ Go to top ]

    +1
  63. Re: Kudos to SUN[ Go to top ]

    -1 Kudos for what? Running the company into the ground? As a shareholder who as done nothing but loose money on Sun stock since 1998, I see nothing to give them Kudos for. The last time Sun innovated was back in 1995 with the release of Java, and that was only prompted by the impending threat of Microsoft on the server. So you could argue that we have Bill Gates to thanks for Java more than anyone else :) Compared to Apple, another hardware company, with Software offerings Sun has floundered badly. Sun did two good things: 1. Release Sun workstations using Motorola CPU's on BSD Unix. 2. Release a VM based language abstracting away from the OS and hence neutralising the threat of Windows NT. Lets look at the list of things they got wrong: 1. Sticking with proprietary hardware long after the rest of the world released that hardware was now a commodity called the Intel platform. 2. Not having the vision to drive through with "the computer is the network" concept and deliver on the Browser as an OS idea, building on their early lead in this arena with Java Applets. 3. They failed terribly at dealing with the "innovators dilemma" with their handling of Java. After rushing a quick and dirty VM based language to market, they then spent the next decade plus pretending that everything in Java land was perfect instead of ensuring that they were the ones to define what came next after Java. So now we have Python and Ruby "I wrote this in the garden shed" languages showing Java a clean pair of heels in the "I just want to get stuff done" market sector, and C# moving ahead in the "we need to be 'industrial strength' and vendor backed" sector. What was Sun doing whilst all this was going on? Well the best they could come up with was changing their ticker symbol to JAVA. After Flex, and Silverlight they finally woke up to the idea that they needed to innovate rather then nursing the Java incumbent base. So we get JavaFX, too little too late. For me the biggest tragedy of Sun, was that with the launch of Java they killed off Smalltalk. Now this may not seem important, but to those of us who were introduced to OO programming and VM based languages through Smalltalk, the rise of Java and the death of Smalltalk set the software industry back about 20 years. Fortunately this major tragedy is being reversed. With Ruby and Python, OO is redeeming itself and coming back from the monsterous carbuncle that was CORBA and later became J2EE. The Browser as an OS idea is also being re-born with innovations like Google Chrome, and fast Javascript VMs like V8. I think the final epitaph for Sun will be a company founded by some good people (like Bill Joy) that had some good ideas in its early days, but as it grew, lacked the courage and conviction to follow through on its original vision. Paul.
  64. Re: Kudos to SUN[ Go to top ]

    -1
    Kudos for what? Running the company into the ground? As a shareholder who as done nothing but loose money on Sun stock since 1998, I see nothing to give them Kudos for.

    The last time Sun innovated was back in 1995 with the release of Java, and that was only prompted by the impending threat of Microsoft on the server. So you could argue that we have Bill Gates to thanks for Java more than anyone else :)

    Compared to Apple, another hardware company, with Software offerings Sun has floundered badly. Sun did two good things:

    1. Release Sun workstations using Motorola CPU's on BSD Unix.
    2. Release a VM based language abstracting away from the OS and hence neutralising the threat of Windows NT.

    Lets look at the list of things they got wrong:

    1. Sticking with proprietary hardware long after the rest of the world released that hardware was now a commodity called the Intel platform.

    2. Not having the vision to drive through with "the computer is the network" concept and deliver on the Browser as an OS idea, building on their early lead in this arena with Java Applets.

    3. They failed terribly at dealing with the "innovators dilemma" with their handling of Java. After rushing a quick and dirty VM based language to market, they then spent the next decade plus pretending that everything in Java land was perfect instead of ensuring that they were the ones to define what came next after Java. So now we have Python and Ruby "I wrote this in the garden shed" languages showing Java a clean pair of heels in the "I just want to get stuff done" market sector, and C# moving ahead in the "we need to be 'industrial strength' and vendor backed" sector. What was Sun doing whilst all this was going on? Well the best they could come up with was changing their ticker symbol to JAVA.

    After Flex, and Silverlight they finally woke up to the idea that they needed to innovate rather then nursing the Java incumbent base. So we get JavaFX, too little too late.

    For me the biggest tragedy of Sun, was that with the launch of Java they killed off Smalltalk. Now this may not seem important, but to those of us who were introduced to OO programming and VM based languages through Smalltalk, the rise of Java and the death of Smalltalk set the software industry back about 20 years.

    Fortunately this major tragedy is being reversed. With Ruby and Python, OO is redeeming itself and coming back from the monsterous carbuncle that was CORBA and later became J2EE. The Browser as an OS idea is also being re-born with innovations like Google Chrome, and fast Javascript VMs like V8.

    I think the final epitaph for Sun will be a company founded by some good people (like Bill Joy) that had some good ideas in its early days, but as it grew, lacked the courage and conviction to follow through on its original vision.

    Paul.
    -1 Agreed
  65. Re: Kudos to SUN[ Go to top ]

    Paul Beckford is right. I also want to add. I hope this will mark the end of the JCP's shenanigans and personality boasting and resume inflating of the JCP process. The marketing and sales of Applications Severs have done a lot of harm to the the development process and architecture, unfortunately, that's just going to get worse from now on. How many developers doesn't take to write and and ejb/jsp/jndi/jsf/jdbc/jsf/hibernate/spring/maven/ant. The whole java development stack is a marvel of laborious technologies, and that include the whole Spring ecosystem too. Good riddance!
  66. Kudos to SUN - Not?[ Go to top ]

    For me the biggest tragedy of Sun, was that with the launch of Java they killed off Smalltalk. Now this may not seem important, but to those of us who were introduced to OO programming and VM based languages through Smalltalk, the rise of Java and the death of Smalltalk set the software industry back about 20 years. Fortunately this major tragedy is being reversed. With Ruby and Python, OO is redeeming itself and coming back from the monsterous carbuncle that was CORBA and later became J2EE.
    Well, I think you'll find plenty of people who will disagree with this statement or conclusion. I can easily argue that (with intentional hyperbole) that: - Smalltalk was an OOP mess much like Perl and later Ruby that is impossible to use in enterprise environment - Java actually leap-frogged OOP adoption to masses like nothing before it - J2EE in fact moved us all into new generation of enterprise software development (with all its initial problems) So, there, yet another opinion. I still believe that Sun deserves the recognition as one of the most influential hardware and software company of the last 25 years. My 2 cents, Nikita Ivanov. GridGain - Open Cloud Platform
  67. Re: Kudos to SUN - Not?[ Go to top ]

    I think you'll find plenty of people who will disagree with this statement or conclusion. I can easily argue that (with intentional hyperbole) that:
    - Smalltalk was an OOP mess much like Perl and later Ruby that is impossible to use in enterprise environment
    I accept the counter argument, but even if this view of Smalltalk is true, why not build on what had already been achieved? Smalltalk can be made strongly typed, infact it was the inventors of a Strongly typed Smalltalk - Strongtalk that Sun bought out to build the Hotspot Java VM. Why not build on what was already there, rather then go a decade backwards just for others to re-invent the past a decade later?
    - Java actually leap-frogged OOP adoption to masses like nothing before it
    Be careful how you use the term "OOP". Alan Kay the inventor of OOP said Java was the worst thing to happen to computer programming since MSDOS. Even today most Java programmers still don't have a firm grasp of how to do OOP properly, and continue to program in a procedural "C with Classes" style. So if learning nothing at all, and calling "structs" "objects" passes as "OOP adoption" then I agree :)

    - J2EE in fact moved us all into new generation of enterprise software development (with all its initial problems)

    So, there, yet another opinion. I still believe that Sun deserves the recognition as one of the most influential hardware and software company of the last 25 years.
    Your entitled to your opinion, but the facts just don't match up. The thing is that Sun knew better, much better. They did great research in the 1990's on OOP with the Self Language and like I mentioned earlier they had great people like Bill Joy and Gilad Bracha who knew that Java wasn't the last word in programming, yet they sat on their hands and did nothing. Incidentally since leaving Sun, Gilad has gone back to his Smalltalk/Strongtalk roots and has released a new language called Newspeak which he hopes to port to the V8 sometime in the future. So innovation lives even if it was stifled for a decade. The fact that Sun will soon be no more, bought out by a company like Oracle no less speaks volumes. (I think I've had more than my 2 cents, but I just wanted to shed some light on a few more historical facts). Paul.
  68. So we got religion[ Go to top ]

    Be careful how you use the term "OOP"... The thing is that Sun knew better, much better. They did great research in the 1990's on OOP with the Self Language and like I mentioned earlier they had great people like Bill Joy and Gilad Bracha who knew that Java wasn't the last word in programming, yet they sat on their hands and did nothing.
    It sounds very guilty doesn't it. Phew, and when you think that they could've stopped the binary holocaust! I'm telling you, this is why I prefer my grandmother's advise to the greatest luminaries.
  69. Re: Kudos to SUN - Not?[ Go to top ]

    Who the hells care now about OOP?!, OOP never resolved nothing and now is enetering to mainstrean new paradigms or I might say old ones as Functional and Logic. Smalltalk sucked in its time and Java won period. About Java and JVM, Could it be that Oracle finnally free Java/JVM to an ISO standard and be done with it?!, Oracle care about midleware and enterprise software not about compilers and language design. Sun should do that long time ago with Java and the JVM. GPL does not work for Java and the JVM everybody knows it. Where the hell is OpenJDK, I fear that Java is not free at all. Wait and see Oracle will offer their community edition of JVM and Enterprise edition of the JVM if they want to monetize Java. I hope the best to Java.
  70. Re: Kudos to SUN[ Go to top ]

    For me the biggest tragedy of Sun, was that with the launch of Java they killed off Smalltalk.
    You can't let go can you Paul?
  71. Re: Kudos to SUN[ Go to top ]

    For me the biggest tragedy of Sun, was that with the launch of Java they killed off Smalltalk.


    You can't let go can you Paul?
    I post a well reasoned comment on why Sun sowed the seeds of its own down fall by choosing not to innovate, and everyone decides to hold on to one sentence about Smalltalk. Even if you don't share my views on Smalltalk and OO, it still doesn't detract from the fact that Sun has done nothing new for over 10 years now. It's really something, when even Microsoft is more innovative with the research of Erik Meijer and the functional additions to C#. If you guys had spent less time being Java zealots and more time holding Sun to account, perhaps they would have been forced to do something. As things stand now Sun is as dead as their vision. How about reflecting on this rather than given Kudos to failure? Paul.
  72. Re: Kudos to SUN[ Go to top ]

    For me the biggest tragedy of Sun, was that with the launch of Java they killed off Smalltalk.


    You can't let go can you Paul?
    Damn, I thought I was the only one longing for the old days. :-) Seriously, Sun did not kill Smalltalk, they only introduced a better model: free. As much as I loved Smalltalk, it wasn't going to go anywhere at $5K a pop, whereas free copies of the JDK flooded the market. Blame IBM and ParcPlace, not Sun. I agree that Sun could have improved Smalltalk, rather than create a new language. We wouldn't have waited 10 years to get the tools up to the point where Smalltalk was 10+ years ago. Mark
  73. Re: Kudos to SUN[ Go to top ]

    As a young guy who hasn't been around as long as you veterans, this is my first foray into more active watching of the software as a business world. Oracle now owns one of the most popular high end database systems and one of the most popular low end database systems. It would make sense to me, the same way Photoshop gives out "Educational" versions, that Oracle use MySQL DB as a stepping stone to Oracle DB. What are some of the primary differences (besides price tag and support contracts) between MySQL DB and Oracle DB? What would you add to MySQL DB in order to entice people to move to Oracle DB? How would you normalize the two in order to make it more smooth of an upgrade? Now that Oracle owns Solaris, are we going to see tighter integration between Solaris and Oracle DB? It would seem that Oracle would do well to push Oracle DB on Solaris powered by Sun hardware as its preferred stack. Would you (or your DBAs/Ops) change to this stack if there was enough of a performance increase? Just an aside, but now that Oracle owns Sun, will that mean that Oracle controls more than one vote on JSRs? CAPTCHA: Holy Females. Nuns! They're everywhere!
  74. I hope they don't come out with community / enterprise edition JDK
  75. Re: Kudos to SUN[ Go to top ]

    Just an aside, but now that Oracle owns Sun, will that mean that Oracle controls more than one vote on JSRs?
    Just as an aside, the JCP has never ever been democratic, and is run by large organisations, politics, and voting goes on vested interests. Don't expect things to change ... ever. The item being discussed in this thread will only go to further reinforce it.
  76. JCP changes[ Go to top ]

    Just out of curiosity, what changes would you like to see at the JCP? -Frank
  77. Re: JCP changes[ Go to top ]

    Just out of curiosity, what changes would you like to see at the JCP?
    Let's start with openness ? Participation by private mailing list is something of the past best left there. Having to sign NDAs just to "participate" ? Get rid of that. What is there to hide if you have the best interests of the technology in mind ? Ability to test that something is "compliant" involves getting hold of a "private" test kit, with yet another NDA to sign. If group X is so sure that their implementation is compliant then why can't anyone test it? If you get together a large enough group of experts to design a technology and then just have some large organisation(s) able to veto everything by some odd voting round then what was the point of asking the "experts" ? Ahhh, nice technology but its contrary to our monetary interests so no way Jose. Is this really the way to promote good technology to assist the user and develop the language? When you've got those parts done then we can discuss further ...
  78. Re: JCP changes[ Go to top ]

    Just out of curiosity, what changes would you like to see at the JCP?

    -Frank
    The evolution of a programming language and its associated APIs is, when it comes down to it, just software development. To me the JCP represents a committee driven style of development. How many projects has anyone worked on where that went well? How many books have been written on the subject? books on committee driven development One of the best things about working with Java is the open source projects. Projects like Spring, Hibernate, Seam and the many to come out of Apache. These projects were not developed, evolved or held to ransom by a JCP style process, yet being open source the community is still free to contribute to and scrutinize the end product. Anyone can contribute and if the idea or the code is good enough it will make it to the shipped product. But the bottom line is the idea or code is evaluated on the spot and accepted or rejected by the people who run the project - and if the contributor isn't happy they can create their own project. Java as a language and a platform deserves to evolve at a faster rate than has been the case recently. I'm hoping Oracle take responsibility for that evolution and get on with it. Christian.
  79. Re: Kudos to SUN[ Go to top ]

    What are some of the primary differences (besides price tag and support contracts) between MySQL DB and Oracle DB?
    Oracle can utilize multiple cores to execute a single query.
  80. Re: Kudos to SUN[ Go to top ]

    -1
    Kudos for what? Running the company into the ground? As a shareholder who as done nothing but loose money on Sun stock since 1998, I see nothing to give them Kudos for.

    The last time Sun innovated was back in 1995 with the release of Java, and that was only prompted by the impending threat of Microsoft on the server. So you could argue that we have Bill Gates to thanks for Java more than anyone else :)

    Compared to Apple, another hardware company, with Software offerings Sun has floundered badly. Sun did two good things:

    1. Release Sun workstations using Motorola CPU's on BSD Unix.
    2. Release a VM based language abstracting away from the OS and hence neutralising the threat of Windows NT.

    Lets look at the list of things they got wrong:

    1. Sticking with proprietary hardware long after the rest of the world released that hardware was now a commodity called the Intel platform.

    2. Not having the vision to drive through with "the computer is the network" concept and deliver on the Browser as an OS idea, building on their early lead in this arena with Java Applets.

    3. They failed terribly at dealing with the "innovators dilemma" with their handling of Java. After rushing a quick and dirty VM based language to market, they then spent the next decade plus pretending that everything in Java land was perfect instead of ensuring that they were the ones to define what came next after Java. So now we have Python and Ruby "I wrote this in the garden shed" languages showing Java a clean pair of heels in the "I just want to get stuff done" market sector, and C# moving ahead in the "we need to be 'industrial strength' and vendor backed" sector. What was Sun doing whilst all this was going on? Well the best they could come up with was changing their ticker symbol to JAVA.

    After Flex, and Silverlight they finally woke up to the idea that they needed to innovate rather then nursing the Java incumbent base. So we get JavaFX, too little too late.

    For me the biggest tragedy of Sun, was that with the launch of Java they killed off Smalltalk. Now this may not seem important, but to those of us who were introduced to OO programming and VM based languages through Smalltalk, the rise of Java and the death of Smalltalk set the software industry back about 20 years.

    Fortunately this major tragedy is being reversed. With Ruby and Python, OO is redeeming itself and coming back from the monsterous carbuncle that was CORBA and later became J2EE. The Browser as an OS idea is also being re-born with innovations like Google Chrome, and fast Javascript VMs like V8.

    I think the final epitaph for Sun will be a company founded by some good people (like Bill Joy) that had some good ideas in its early days, but as it grew, lacked the courage and conviction to follow through on its original vision.

    Paul.
    All of your points are so subjective that it doesn't worth to start a war. I would still argue, SUN is one of the most innovative company of our time, if it wouldn't; you wouldn't be arguing here on this forum. I rest my case Paul.
  81. Re: Kudos to SUN[ Go to top ]

    Fortunately this major tragedy is being reversed. With Ruby and Python, OO is redeeming itself and coming back from the monsterous carbuncle that was CORBA and later became J2EE. The Browser as an OS idea is also being re-born with innovations like Google Chrome, and fast Javascript VMs like V8.
    The problem is Ruby and Python are not seen as enterprise ready or fit for anything better than simple applications.
  82. Re: Kudos to SUN[ Go to top ]

    Fortunately this major tragedy is being reversed. With Ruby and Python, OO is redeeming itself and coming back from the monsterous carbuncle that was CORBA and later became J2EE. The Browser as an OS idea is also being re-born with innovations like Google Chrome, and fast Javascript VMs like V8.


    The problem is Ruby and Python are not seen as enterprise ready or fit for anything better than simple applications.
    Well there is always Groovy. The point is that all the recent innovation has happened outside Sun. Either these people are solving problems that don't exist, or Sun and Java just aren't satisfying their needs. You choose. Paul.
  83. Re: Kudos to SUN[ Go to top ]

    +1 Totally agree. -- Nikita Ivanov. GridGain - Open Cloud Platform
  84. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Kodos to SUN.
    Did you mean to say Kudos ? Cos Kodo is a very good JDO/JPA implementation that Oracle bought as part of BEA and then abandoned; maybe you meant it in an ironic sense as to what will happen to some very good SUN software ;-)
  85. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Kodos to SUN.

    Did you mean to say Kudos ?
    Cos Kodo is a very good JDO/JPA implementation that Oracle bought as part of BEA and then abandoned; maybe you meant it in an ironic sense as to what will happen to some very good SUN software ;-)
    No I meant Kudos:-), Now since you pointed me out, I remember using Kodo JDO back in 2002, as one of the earliest implementation of JDO, but I was never kept track of Kodo after that.
  86. Innovate a little less[ Go to top ]

    Reading Miko Matsumora's blog on the Oracle aquisition of Sun makes me self-reflective on the software industry. Miko says the purchase is about three things: - Oracle will make the Sun hardware business more efficient - Oracle gets into the open-source (MySQL) database space - It is about the cost synergy thing Safra Catz, the CFO of Oracle said she will make the Sun Hardware business “profitable.” I agree with Miko, the move proves Oracle to be acquisitive and opportunistic. We knew that about Oracle already. For the rest of us, Oracle buying Sun sure makes it more difficult to succeed through innovation. Moves like this by Sun or Computer Associates are about harvesting what already exists instead of creating/innovating. -Frank Cohen http://www.pushtotest.com
  87. I agree with Frank here, it is definitely about harvesting but lots of innovation in Java has happened and will continue to happen outside of SUN/Oracle. For those that are interested, Rod Johnson also posted his take on the acquisition on his blog: Oracle Adds New Exhibit to Java Technology Museum Adam FitzGerald SpringSource
  88. Java ME ?[ Go to top ]

    what about Mobile stuff ? Is Oracle interesting in that territory?
  89. Snoracle[ Go to top ]

    Here's the Oracle link on the story:

    http://www.oracle.com/sun/
    This acquisition isn't about the future - it's about the past. It gives Oracle some support revenue streams to milk and tightens their grip on existing Solaris / WLS / Oracle DB customers. Maybe allows Oracle to benefit from Solaris migrations to Linux. The server / storage businesses will be sold off in the next 18 months. I think this acquisition is more about Oracle competing with IBM than it is about Sun. Funny to think that at some point Sun could have acquired both Oracle and BEA; but granted they wouldn't have become the Oracle and BEA we came to know. More informed prognostications here : http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/830 - Rich
  90. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    This is a really good move by Oracle. It now has: - the best dev platform - Sun's JVM & BEA's JRockit JVM - the best OSS & proprietary DB - MySQL & Oracle - one of the best app servers - BEA WebLogic, right after JBoss ;) - it can now deliver a total platform a la Apple style - hardware + software Hey Larry - if you can now rake in or develop a GPL-based OpenGL-based GUI for Linux - which IMHO is the only thing Linux is missing, a solid non-X11-based GUI, you are out to dethrone Microsoft, hire Ballmer as your maid (Bill's actually doing God's work right now via his B&M Gates foundation, and your petty software domination games take second place to doing God's work), and claim to be the #1 software company in the world that turned Microsoft on its head. Shit, I may even apply for a job at Oracle after that...
  91. Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Unfortunately, Oracle is also famous for the quantity of bugs in their software: bugged in version x.2.3.0, fixed in version x.2.3.1, broken again in version x.2.3.3; patch, patch, patch, ...etc So, in order to show the goodness of their aquisition to the Java community of developers, I propose that Oracle starts open-sourcing their JDBC driver. So we will fix the bugs and the memory leaks ourselves... lol
  92. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    Many like me feel very sad about this news when Java (and the whole community ) is put under such pressure of how Java will be taken care by Oracle? With the same pace and passion of Sun? Lets wait and see.
  93. Re: Oracle Buying Sun[ Go to top ]

    This is a different aquisition by Oracle so can't derive too much from earlier aquisitions. 1. Sun is a Technology R&D Vendor, Software Product Vendor, Hardware Product Vendor, Network Innovation Vendor, etc. So Oracle didn't do such multi-dimensional aquisitions, and this time will deal with Sun brands very carefully without loosing any base. 2. How is other Java community members to cooperate with Oracle? Yes it is very difficult esp. with IBM, however Sun was/in in the same shoes of Oracle 3. End of Java/JVM Obviously Oracle is big supporter of Sun not the killer of Java and since most of its revenues based on Java technologies based. So we can expect a good care and cure from Oracle. Fortunately Sun didn't slip into Microsoft kind of companies, they will certainly kill Java. 4. 3 Major players: Microsoft, IBM and now Oracle in Stream A? Yes its true, who knows probably Google may go into Oracle or vice versa in future depends upon their standings in the market 5. Too early to predict any outcome now
  94. Does this mean that Companies are going to force java developers to use Jdeveloper as Oracle now owns Sun. I think some of us will feel the presure. Joris.
  95. From previous merges, one thing is somewhat new: the open source effect/impact. For example, a company closing an office suite will then end the life of this suite. Oracle can't do exactly the same thing due to OpenOffice nature. I see one reason: OpenOffice has already been forked, see Go-oo. And maybe other products inside SUN portfolio could gain a longer life this way.