Support Forums: Message List - Gosling speaks out on AJAX http://www.theserverside.com Most recent forum messages en Jive Forums Silver 5.5.30 (www.jivesoftware.com) Thu, 23 May 2013 01:37:46 -0400 Questioning why we do what we do... http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=40017 My guess is that there isn't one way, but questioning and reflecting on how we work can only make us improve.
Absolutely. Which is I think that really vigorous discussions like this are so healthy. I have found, over the...]]> Mon, 01 May 2006 17:19:49 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 17:19:49 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 17:19:49 -0400 May 1, 2006 Steve Zara 0 Questioning why we do what we do... http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=40017
I didn't know you were listening in Erik. I'm enjoying the discussion too. I agree with Steve though that this type of debate isn't really that suited to TSS.

I'm sure Erik could offer some input too. If I sound like I know how we...]]> Mon, 01 May 2006 16:35:29 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 16:35:29 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 16:35:29 -0400 May 1, 2006 Paul Beckford 1 Questioning why we do what we do... http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=40017 Actually, I don't think my circumstances are that unique!
I think many of us are in the middle...
I enjoy debate, and I would would be happy discussing things further, but I think this off topic, and probably...]]> Mon, 01 May 2006 15:31:46 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 15:31:46 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 15:31:46 -0400 May 1, 2006 Erik Engbrecht 2 Questioning why we do what we do... http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=40017 Hi Steve,Yes you are quite right. I did make a lot of assumptions, but the points I made apply to a lot of organisations. I apologise since your set of circumstances do sound quite unique.In fact this is my point. Every...]]> Mon, 01 May 2006 14:28:11 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 14:28:11 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 14:28:11 -0400 May 1, 2006 Steve Zara 3 Questioning why we do what we do... http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=40017
Yes you are quite right. I did make a lot of assumptions, but the points I made apply to a lot of organisations. I apologise since your set of circumstances do sound quite unique.

In fact this is my point. Every...]]> Mon, 01 May 2006 13:53:29 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 13:53:29 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 13:53:29 -0400 May 1, 2006 Paul Beckford 4 Questioning why we do what we do... http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=40017 Everyone in the team has exactly the same view? And everyone's view remains the same despite the nature of the project?

Of course they don't! I never said that. We come to agreements after much discussion and debate....]]> Mon, 01 May 2006 11:05:37 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 11:05:37 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 11:05:37 -0400 May 1, 2006 Steve Zara 5 Questioning why we do what we do... http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=40017 Hi Steve,I've read what you've said, and in general you seem to wnt to make a lot of decisions ahead of time. Why not trust in your team to make the right decisions on a case by case basis?
Actually I don't have 'a...]]> Mon, 01 May 2006 10:33:53 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 10:33:53 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 10:33:53 -0400 May 1, 2006 Steve Zara 0 Questioning why we do what we do... http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=40017 Missed out a bit...
How about building teams of people that have a track record of delivering, and trusting in them to choose their own tools? You asume that development teams need to be protected from themselves, I too...]]> Mon, 01 May 2006 02:33:02 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 02:33:02 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 02:33:02 -0400 May 1, 2006 Paul Beckford 6 Questioning why we do what we do... http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=40017
I've read what you've said, and in general you seem to wnt to make a lot of decisions ahead of time. Why not trust in your team to make the right decisions on a case by case basis?
Of course you value people! For...]]> Mon, 01 May 2006 02:08:19 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 02:08:19 -0400 Mon, 01 May 2006 02:08:19 -0400 May 1, 2006 Paul Beckford 1 Questioning why we do what we do... http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=40017
How about building teams of people that have a track record of delivering, and trusting in them to choose their own tools? You asume that development teams need to be protected from themselves, I too have seen...]]> Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:24:14 -0400 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:24:14 -0400 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:24:14 -0400 Apr 30, 2006 Steve Zara 7 Questioning why we do what we do... http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=40017 This is the crux of the difference. Valuing people to me means making the people the crucible of your technical advantage, not the tools or some arcane repository of out dated code from the past. Many companies try to manage risk by "out...]]> Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:13:15 -0400 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:13:15 -0400 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:13:15 -0400 Apr 30, 2006 Steve Zara 2 Questioning why we do what we do... http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=40017
In some instances this will be Java, in others it will be a shell script, in a next it may be Ruby. The most important ingredient being the person/people behind the keyboard. If the tools commercially available...]]> Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:40:10 -0400 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:40:10 -0400 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:40:10 -0400 Apr 30, 2006 Paul Beckford 11 Questioning why we do what we do... http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=40017 In some instances this will be Java, in others it will be a shell script, in a next it may be Ruby. The most important ingredient being the person/people behind the keyboard. If the tools commercially available do not meet our needs, then we...]]> Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:35:46 -0400 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:35:46 -0400 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:35:46 -0400 Apr 30, 2006 Paul Beckford 12 Questioning why we do what we do... http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=40017 So you do see my perspective. If you've ever done TDD in Smalltalk and been given the ability to implement non existing methods during your test, within the debugger and then are able to continue execution, to the next test failure,...]]> Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:43:54 -0400 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:43:54 -0400 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:43:54 -0400 Apr 30, 2006 Steve Zara 13 Questioning why we do what we do... http://www.theserverside.com/discussions/thread.tss?thread_id=40017
Hi Steve,I didn't mean to sound condescending. And I genuinely hoped that you wouldn't have taken my words that way. To me you feel like an old friend, and it is clear that we have different perspectives.
Well, it did...]]> Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:30:16 -0400 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:30:16 -0400 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:30:16 -0400 Apr 30, 2006 Paul Beckford 14