Did you walk around JavaOne and have a feeling that "something isn't right"? Maybe that feeling was due to the lack of IBM support this year. There were many whispers about their lack of a showing. They claim that it is because they felt this years show was too "client oriented".

They did have *some* showing, through Rational and Pervasive Computing offerings, but you expect to see WebSphere and the like.

Read: JavaOne: IBM keeps low profile

Why do you think IBM didn't show? Were they missed?

personally i could care less (less CDs and other junk to take home). i think it was more political if anything else.

Who cares! there are too many people at javaone anyway

It definately felt more like a pure Sun event. Most of the speakers seemed to be Sun.

On a personal note I lost of lot of repect for BEA and IBM due to their lack of appearence. The big thing is that this is a COMMUNITY and they are part of it. I liked previous Java One's a lot because all the main vendors got up on the stage and tried to behave themselves.

If they think this will make me go to Infoworld or IBM developer world they can think again. If I ever decide not to go to Java One cause it becomes all Sun I would rather go to theserverside conference :-).

David

Who cares if IBM kept out? There are other vendors with better products.

To the previous poster who said he lost respect for BEA & IBM because they didn't show up, FWIW, BEA was a gold sponsor of JavaOne this year. Looks like you were too busy partaking some of the freebie spirits being offered at the many after dark events? :-)

I found there were many talks that were "Sun-centric" and almost none from the other vendors. I know there were many submissions from the other J2EE vendors (incl my company ) which were NOT selected. I was really peeved to see the quality of some of the Sun presentations, esp the one on tuning the SunOne app server! It was pretty disappointing, to say the least. Sun needs to do a better job in selecting talks that are more representative of the marketplace.

> the other vendors. I know there were many submissions from the other J2EE
> vendors (incl my company ) which were NOT selected.

I had the same feelings. HOW many "with Sun ONE ..", "Sun ONE ..." presentations (and NONE from other vendors like that).

I know of a lot of great presentation ideas that were turned down, which makes this practice even more frustrating. I want to see more bleeding edge "out there" presentations, so we can learn new ideas and practices.

Dion

I actually think that IBM is the main driving force behind Java. It was really thanks to them that enterprise business accepted Java as server side technology.
I work with IBM consultants and many of them are being trained in .NET ... bad news for Java?

IBM is Java!
+1.

The sooner Sun drops of, the better for the JavaCommunity.
Here is current market share of Sun vs BEA vs...
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/04/10/java_servlet_engines.html

I like the name SunOne, not JavaOne. Same should go for JCP, call it the Sun Process.

.V

What misguided thinking! Java is certainly bigger than IBM.

btw, your link with the market share is pretty irrelevant. If all you want to use an app server is for serving jsp/servlets, you're looking at the wrong product.

Java is bigger than IBM, Oracle, Sun and if any of the vendors forget it they will have embarked on the road that leads them to the darkside where Microsoft exists.

David

Cary,
"link with the market share is pretty irrelevant. If all you want to use an app server is for serving jsp/servlets, you're looking at the wrong product."

Netcraft is very reputable and scientific. They are not a for hire marketing org, like others. But .... I am for learning, feel free to share a better market share study.
It is hard to measure JDBC/Jndi, rest of J2EE, but you can get larger ideas from the share study:

IBM has more production J2EE than BEA.
Oracle is important, it might be bigger than BEA one day.
Sun has almost no share (will it ever?)
Resin and Tomcat are very important.

The point is JavaOne are not majory players, you pay $2K to hear a SunOne powerpoint makerting pitch. Only 5K people at conference.
Next year... theServerSide might be bigger (or ApacheConf)

.V

IBM is a big part of the java COMMUNITY no matter what you think of them and their products it was bad they where not there. This is meant to be a community event and has been very much so in the past.

As for BEA I am well aware they where there as a Gold sponsor but I did not see represented at all other than at the Pavilion.

I agree that a lot of the sessions and BOFs where poor this year compared to previous years. The best one I went to was the last session about applying XP to J2EE projects. The company from Belgium where v. cool and those two guys have my dream job. XP consultancy firm, v. nice.

Cary, actually I went to mostly the BOFs in the evening (I missed some on Tuesday due to the Borland party). Not really interested in Freebies as I have all the vendor t-shirts and hats I could ever could need but thanks for your opinion on how I spent my time. Sorry your submission did not get selected.

David

PS. Why are vendor t-shirts 5 times too big? I bought a couple of O'Reilly books and they gave a t-shirt three people could fit into. One size fits no-one.

Because alot of Java developers aren't as fit as the stereotype would have you believe.

> not see represented at all other than at the Pavilion.

I don't think BEA (or any other vendor, for that matter) has any real say in all the decisions being made at JavaOne. For all the big talk about "community involvement", Sun did a very poor job when it came to actually walking the talk and instead stuffed the schedule with a lotta SunOne crapola. Maybe they should rename JavaOne to SunOne and then see how people actually show up ... Sun seems to think this is a SunOne user conference :-(

It's true that IBM kept a very low profile at JavaOne, but I did see many IBM folks walking the conference. So it's not like they are disengaged.

I wish IBM was at JavaOne to cover the following topics:

1) What's the IBM roadmap for delivering secure WebSphere-implemented J2EE-based applications? For example, will WebSphere be upgraded to include SAML for single-sign-on?

2) Where does IBM stand on JDO? I would think that DB2 and WebSphere would be able to making CMP and JDO leverage each other.

3) What's the IBM story behind Apache Axis in WebSphere? I thought Axis was going to be WebSphere 5.0's Web Services stack.

4) Is Eclipse going to support JavaServer Faces? If so, what makes Eclipse with JSF better than Rave?

5) There seems to be a lot of talk about changing J2EE deployment descriptors for J2EE 1.5. What is IBM's view on the current state of Enterprise Bean deployment descriptors?

-Frank

I forgot about this one:

IBM has been making noises in the development community to get ready for Grid computing. How will the Java platform support Grid computing?

-Frank Cohen
http://www.pushtotest.com
TestMaker 4.0 now does live charts and meters

I can't comment definitively on all of these, but I can shed a little light on some of them. And (BTW) if you DO come to the Serverside conference you'll see some IBM participation there...

>1) What's the IBM roadmap for delivering secure WebSphere-implemented J2EE->based applications? For example, will WebSphere be upgraded to include SAML >for single-sign-on?

I can't answer this entire question but I can tell you that the WS-Security roadmap is quite close to being the IBM security roadmap. Following on the heels of our support for WS-Security released in the WAS 5.0 Tech preview (and fully supported in WAS 5.02, coming out soon) we will be adding support for other elements of the WS-Security roadmap (WS-Policy, WS-Trust, WS-SecureConversations) over time. AFAIK SAML isn't a part of it yet, but there have been rumblings about SAML support coming as part of the roadmap.

>2) Where does IBM stand on JDO? I would think that DB2 and WebSphere would be >able to making CMP and JDO leverage each other.

Again, AFAIK, we are not planning on supporting JDO within WebSphere. This was true as of the last time I talked to our senior developers and architects about this subject within the last month.

>3) What's the IBM story behind Apache Axis in WebSphere? I thought Axis was >going to be WebSphere 5.0's Web Services stack.

It still is, sorta kinda but not really. The bottom of our Web Services Stack in WAS 5.02 will be a SOAP engine we code-named "Maelstrom". It has some of its roots in Apache Axis, but other parts have been redesigned for performance significantly better than that of Axis. The key here is to program to the common JAX-RPC API's (which will be fully supported) and not any additional internal Axis API's.

>4) Is Eclipse going to support JavaServer Faces? If so, what makes Eclipse >with JSF better than Rave?

A beta of support for JSF in WebSphere Studio Application Developer will be released later this year.

5) There seems to be a lot of talk about changing J2EE deployment descriptors for J2EE 1.5. What is IBM's view on the current state of Enterprise Bean deployment descriptors?

I know that we're discussing changing/updating/redoing the security DD's in light of WS-Policy, but that's all I'm aware of.

Kyle Brown
Senior Technical Staff Member
IBM Software Services for WebSphere

I thought Javaone existed primarily as a revenue stream for Sun (do they have others these days?) and as an excuse for a few days off for employees.

Making the money is the goal.

You might want to check into enterprise hardware sales and consulting.

Those are both pretty solid revenue streams for SUN. In fact, this is an area in which SUN has a leading market share.

A couple of days off are always nice, too ;)

John C. Dale
Down in the Desert, Inc.

and if it meant more market share, IBM would be in bed with Microsoft (less of a competetor to IBM .. hell, IBM ships WINDOWS - they are already practically in bed) in a heartbeat if they could get around the Fed.

Sun is gradually moving toward the end-user with their strategy. I'm sure that scares MS and IBM to a great degree.

Think about it. SUN's software is the best in the WORLD. Can you imagine how fast users would flock to an inexpensive, stable end-user OS platform that supports java and integrates with the entire web?

IBM is backing out now, and will probably implement counter-strategies every step of the way to stop SUN, their competetor.

Let's just hope that SUN can pull it off. A company as capable deserves to be rewarded.

IBM the company is as bloated as their rediculous WebSmere, and something is afoot.

John C. Dale
CEO
Down in the Desert, Inc.

IBM is probably which extends into every form of computing life. Enterprise, personal computing, database, app sever, PCs, Mainframe, middleware, messaging, architecture, emails, cameras, laptops.
Java is only a part of their overall strategy and they have done it remarkably well with WS products. I also see a great business culture within IBM in supporting competititor's products, you find equal number of redbooks on running oracle on AIX as DB2. IBM will continue to innovate, support .Net, J2EE without any vendor bias.

in the server-side/enterprise space? Where is their bread-and-butter?

Most of the industry professionals with whom I collaborate regarding the best enterprise tools concur that one is likely to spend more time keeping the IBM J2EE stack and Development IDE running than actually developing their business applications.

K.I.S.S.

As with many IDE's these days, Websphere Studio is trying to be all things to all people. In the process they have crossed the line to instability and un-usability.

Here's a tip for those who really want to build killer scalable enterprise applications:

Buy a J2EE book, download JBoss, splurge and spend $10 dollars on the JBoss docs, and get yourself a copy of IntelliJ IDEA, and hire a data-modeler/J2EE persistence/application workflow expert. In six months you'll be well on your way to a killer portable application. Meanwhile, in that same six month time period, your competetors will still be trying to decide on a Vendor.

Best,

John C. Dale
Down in the Desert, Inc.